#11
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George: Is piston tip-off caused by the piston tube/engine connection point? or does it also have to do with after release, the wind is hitting it too? either/or? or both? TIA
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"Old Rocketeer's don't die; they just go OOP".....unless you 3D print them. |
#12
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yes thank you. It was published in the MIT Con Proceedings in April 1973. I edited the original to reflect this. I have to sit down and do a time line to keep everything straight and in correct order. !
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"Old Rocketeer's don't die; they just go OOP".....unless you 3D print them. |
#13
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Speaking of FAI / WSMC flying and piston launchers, I'm surprised that George didn't mention the infamous "50-foot miss-fires" that occur when a foreign competitor's igniter fails to start the motor, but does ignite the additional flammable material inside the piston ( illegal, of course ) . . . The are commonly referred to as "Sweetened" piston launchers. Dave F. |
#14
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I like the concept of this "sweetened" piston launcher.
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When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!! Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't ! Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY. ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, and HAVOC ! |
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I was always ticked off when I'd see a piston-launched model at a WSMC "pop" up 20-30 feet, without the motor firing, due to black powder (or whatever) that had been added to the piston to make it perform better. With NO repercussions (indeed, it did not even count as a flight, they got to do it over). Saw it happen several times.
TOTALLY illegal. But nobody protested. And the RSO's that will DQ a flight if it is ignited even 1/4 second before they say "zero" in their countdown.......totally turned a blind eye to absolutely blatant obvious cheating as though nothing unusual had happened at all. (The rules do not allow the launchers to provide any acceleration that is not 100% due to the motor itself. No bungee catapults, no BP, no linear "rail guns" etc. ) Nobody on the US Team pulled that s***. If anyone had, some of their teammates would have had a talking to with them and no doubt the team manager (such as John Langford) would have a very serious discussion about not doing that again, or ELSE. Because if one team member is cheating like that, it makes it look like the whole team is in on it (and indeed I am sure the models I did see that did that, were indeed the way their teams did it on purpose. Not one person choosing to do that on their own without the rest of the team knowing or even colluding.). But I did not recall seeing it happen at the last few WSMC's I attended. So maybe the officials did crack down on it eventually, and it stopped. Or perhaps the cheaters got better at cheating in a way that the extra BP would only go off if the motor really did ignite. If a model using a piston popped into the air at a NARAM, with the motor not being lit, guaranteed the RSO and/or CD would be all over figuring out why/how that happened (Not acting like an oblivious referee at a 3rd rate pro wrestling match). And if the flier did purposely cheat, they would probably be DQ'ed from the entire event, previous scores wiped away. And possibly thrown out from the whole contest depending on the severity. Nothing like that has happened before, but the rules certainly would allow for such penalties.
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Contest flying, Sport flying, it's all good..... NAR# 18723 NAR.org GeorgesRockets.com Georges'CancerGoFundMe: https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-geo...ay-fight-cancer Last edited by georgegassaway : 02-21-2021 at 06:26 AM. |
#16
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Here are some images of some "foreign" piston launchers . . . Dave F. |
#17
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More . . .
Dave F. |
#18
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Yet more . ..
Dave F. |
#19
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my only response to "sweetened" pistons with BP is when does an igniter no longer become an igniter and it becomes "sweetening".....
for example, one of the issues that have always dogged piston launchers is ignition......so is it cheating or sweetening to use an electrically ignited single flash pan that has a little BP in it to ignite the motor? What if my DIY igniter has been dipped in nitrocellulose and then dipped in a little BP, is that cheating or sweetening the pot? what is I was to paint the nozzle area of my motor with NC and then add a few sprinkles of BP...then electrically ignite it...... where do you draw the line between what is an igniter and what is sweetening and cheating.? George said, "Or perhaps the cheaters got better at cheating in a way that the extra BP would only go off if the motor really did ignite." <--- This is what has happened. Maybe the FAI needs to impound the igniters and pistons before the competition like they do with the motors. I agree that with your examples something is obviously amiss, and the fact no protest was lodged tells me even more. To not upset the applecart. To this day we don't really know what's inside the Russian or some eastern European pistons......I wonder if silicon chalking produces any gases when lit?
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"Old Rocketeer's don't die; they just go OOP".....unless you 3D print them. |
#20
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As I see it, if the "igniter" significantly adds to the pressure inside the piston, then it is "sweetening". Of course, the only way to prove this would be to either randomly pull models off the flight line for a "tear-down inspection" of the piston and the "igniter" OR have each competitor "supervised" during prep and right up until the model & piston is placed on the flight line. If the model is taken down, for any reason, the process repeats. Dave F. |
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