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  #21  
Old 05-11-2023, 07:38 PM
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Solomoriah Solomoriah is offline
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I see your point, Earl. There are however many possible reasons that align with my story (which is after all just a story)... for example, the V-2 nose cones might have been the first production run they tried, and they might not have been willing to pay to remake bad molds for just that one; what was learned from that might have led to better molds for the others, and all of that could have happened within a matter of days.

Digging through Ninfinger's site, I don't find plastic nose cones for sale separately from Estes until the 1974 Custom Parts Catalog; the catalogs up to and including 1974 show only balsa cones. But I'm not actually an expert on this history, just someone who almost lived through it.
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  #22  
Old 05-20-2023, 05:34 PM
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Ok, my V2 kit arrived yesterday. Some issues with FedEx package routing, as it took a week to get here. Seller did a great job packing the two kits very well and off via FedEx. However, FedEx showed no additional tracking status after he dropped them off for almost five days. Anyway, they are here now….

And in particular on the plastic cone for the V2, after examining mine very closely I think I might know the core issue with the cone. Mine also had the drilled hole in the base.

The remaining ‘lug’ on the base of my cone looks to be a bit more than yours Jeff. A closer look with a large magnifying glass indicates that the leg has not be ‘cut’ or ‘sawed’ off at all; it was never properly formed inside the mold.

The ‘nubs’ of what IS left are well-rounded portions of two ubs of the lug about 3/32” high with no sharp edges, cut marks, saw marks, etc. What it certainly looks like is only so much molten plastic flowed into that part of the mold and just stopped. The lug therefore never completely formed. WHY that is I do not know and I do not know if this was the fate of all cones like this one produced in the molds. Some of them may have come out ok.

Jeff, if you look very closely at yours with a magnifying glass you may also find yours has not actually been ‘cut’ off. It may be like mine and just never did form completely when it was made.

The biggest question would be why Centuri apparently did not fix this mold issue. Especially in light of the fact that at this very same time, Centuri had two other plastic cones — one of for the Nike Smoke and one for the Quasar — that had also just been introduced and had this same type of lug, but neither had this same issue. SEEMINGLY, the issues with this cone were not fixed and the cone and the kit were dropped shortly thereafter.

Earl
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  #23  
Old 05-20-2023, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ltvscout
Did you buy the incomplete Egg Crate as well?


Scott-

As an additional follow up to your question and my earlier response, after getting the kit the one item I could not see in the kit photos — one of the engine lock Mylar rings — was actually in with all the other kit parts. So, the kit was totally complete and like the V2, in very good condition.

Earl
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  #24  
Old 05-20-2023, 07:01 PM
Ltvscout Ltvscout is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl
Scott-

As an additional follow up to your question and my earlier response, after getting the kit the one item I could not see in the kit photos — one of the engine lock Mylar rings — was actually in with all the other kit parts. So, the kit was totally complete and like the V2, in very good condition.

Earl

Awesome! I meant to buy that built one that was for sale the other week but was busy when the auction was ending. It went cheap!
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  #25  
Old 05-20-2023, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ltvscout
Awesome! I meant to buy that built one that was for sale the other week but was busy when the auction was ending. It went cheap!


I had mentioned that auction to Bill, i.e., Wallyum (here on YORF) as a possible rescue rocket. Wonder if he was able to snag it? Either in kit form or built, the Centuri Egg Crate rarely raises its head, sadly.

Never have been sure why it lasted in the Centuri catalog but one year, 1971. Ahhh…such a long time ago now. I cannot hardly wrap my head around the fact that my first rocket catalog was in my hands now over 52 years ago. I can remember the day I pulled it out of my mailbox at the tender age of 8. Time goes by way, way too fast….

Earl
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  #26  
Old 05-21-2023, 01:08 AM
Faithwalker Faithwalker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl
Ok, my V2 kit arrived yesterday. Some issues with FedEx package routing, as it took a week to get here. Seller did a great job packing the two kits very well and off via FedEx. However, FedEx showed no additional tracking status after he dropped them off for almost five days. Anyway, they are here now….

And in particular on the plastic cone for the V2, after examining mine very closely I think I might know the core issue with the cone. Mine also had the drilled hole in the base.

The remaining ‘lug’ on the base of my cone looks to be a bit more than yours Jeff. A closer look with a large magnifying glass indicates that the leg has not be ‘cut’ or ‘sawed’ off at all; it was never properly formed inside the mold.

The ‘nubs’ of what IS left are well-rounded portions of two ubs of the lug about 3/32” high with no sharp edges, cut marks, saw marks, etc. What it certainly looks like is only so much molten plastic flowed into that part of the mold and just stopped. The lug therefore never completely formed. WHY that is I do not know and I do not know if this was the fate of all cones like this one produced in the molds. Some of them may have come out ok.

Jeff, if you look very closely at yours with a magnifying glass you may also find yours has not actually been ‘cut’ off. It may be like mine and just never did form completely when it was made.

The biggest question would be why Centuri apparently did not fix this mold issue. Especially in light of the fact that at this very same time, Centuri had two other plastic cones — one of for the Nike Smoke and one for the Quasar — that had also just been introduced and had this same type of lug, but neither had this same issue. SEEMINGLY, the issues with this cone were not fixed and the cone and the kit were dropped shortly thereafter.

Earl

Hi Earl,
It does appear that the Centuri KS-19 V-2 plastic nose cone that I have has the nubs filed down where the original eyelet was located (photo attached). On the drilled hole that is adjacent to the original formed eyelet location, there is a small amount of residual flashing inside the drilled hole.

Did the Centuri KS-19 V-2 kit you purchased on eBay happen to have the additional literature, like I have, referring to the plastic nose cone included with your kit? If so, I am curious if the literature is the same or different from what I posted earlier here in post #6, https://forums.rocketshoppe.com/sho...848&postcount=6?

Kind regards,
Jeff Jenkins
aka: Faithwalker
NAR #46879 SR
Attached Thumbnails
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Name:  Centuri_KS-19_V-2_plastic_nose_cone1_base.jpg
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Last edited by Faithwalker : 05-21-2023 at 02:30 AM.
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  #27  
Old 05-21-2023, 02:05 PM
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Earl Earl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faithwalker
Hi Earl,
It does appear that the Centuri KS-19 V-2 plastic nose cone that I have has the nubs filed down where the original eyelet was located (photo attached). On the drilled hole that is adjacent to the original formed eyelet location, there is a small amount of residual flashing inside the drilled hole.

Did the Centuri KS-19 V-2 kit you purchased on eBay happen to have the additional literature, like I have, referring to the plastic nose cone included with your kit? If so, I am curious if the literature is the same or different from what I posted earlier here in post #6, https://forums.rocketshoppe.com/sho...848&postcount=6?

Kind regards,
Jeff Jenkins
aka: Faithwalker
NAR #46879 SR


Jeff-

In addition to all the standard kit contents, it did include an instruction addendum that was similar to yours but not exactly the same. The addendum sheet covered both the new plastic nose cone and the new shock cord fastener attachment method (scanned document attached below). I have a couple other Centuri kits from this era that contain this exact same addendum sheet. Possibly, your addendum sheet is an earlier version, as it is specific to the V2. Mine is more generic and would therefore be useable with other Centuri kits. Mine did not have the R&D paper slip in it, but I have another kit (I think a Enerjet kit) that has that in it.

I have also attached an image of my cone so you can see the condition of my 'lug'. The tops of the little nubs are rounded and very smooth...no signs of sawing or filing at all.

So, if you lock closely at your cone, can you actually see ‘abrasions’ and ‘scratch marks’ over the area where the lug should be? Although your photo is pretty close up, I just can’t tell completely. Mine certainly has more of what was supposed to be the lug showing. Possibly (if your kit had a prior owner), the original owner may have filed down what was left of the ‘nubs’. Of course, if you are the original owner or if the kit was sealed when you got it, then that answers that question.

I guess the big question would be: “Did all these V2 cones suffer the same fate, or did some actually come out of the mold ok?” It still kind of baffles me that this mold issue was apparently never resolved by Centuri and the cone never used any further.

Earl
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Name:  Centuri V2 Plastic Cone-Inst Add.jpg
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Name:  Centuri V2 Plastic Cone Lug.jpg
Views: 17
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  #28  
Old 05-21-2023, 11:35 PM
Faithwalker Faithwalker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl
Jeff-

In addition to all the standard kit contents, it did include an instruction addendum that was similar to yours but not exactly the same. The addendum sheet covered both the new plastic nose cone and the new shock cord fastener attachment method (scanned document attached below). I have a couple other Centuri kits from this era that contain this exact same addendum sheet. Possibly, your addendum sheet is an earlier version, as it is specific to the V2. Mine is more generic and would therefore be useable with other Centuri kits. Mine did not have the R&D paper slip in it, but I have another kit (I think a Enerjet kit) that has that in it.

I have also attached an image of my cone so you can see the condition of my 'lug'. The tops of the little nubs are rounded and very smooth...no signs of sawing or filing at all.

So, if you lock closely at your cone, can you actually see ‘abrasions’ and ‘scratch marks’ over the area where the lug should be? Although your photo is pretty close up, I just can’t tell completely. Mine certainly has more of what was supposed to be the lug showing. Possibly (if your kit had a prior owner), the original owner may have filed down what was left of the ‘nubs’. Of course, if you are the original owner or if the kit was sealed when you got it, then that answers that question.

I guess the big question would be: “Did all these V2 cones suffer the same fate, or did some actually come out of the mold ok?” It still kind of baffles me that this mold issue was apparently never resolved by Centuri and the cone never used any further.

Earl

Hi Earl,
Thank you for your posting with the photo of the addendum that was included in your Centuri KS-19 V-2 kit. My Centuri KS-19 V-2 kit has a similar but different shock cord attachment addendum (photo attached).

Also, I've made another attempt at photographing the Centuri KS-19 V-2 kit plastic nose cone base eyelet area. I don't see any distinctive file marks, but the surface of the original eyelet location is smooth in appearance and to the touch. It is possible that the malformed eyelet nubs could have been cut off with a sharp hobby knife or possibly sanded off with very fine sandpaper.

I'm not the original kit owner. When I purchased the Centuri KS-19 V-2 kit, it was sealed with a piece of clear cellophane packaging tape, so it had been previously opened because the factory packaging staples had been removed. It is unknown whether the malformed original eyelet nubs on the plastic nose cone were removed by Centuri or by someone else, but, other than the missing packaging staples, the kit is pristine with nothing missing and nothing else disturbed or modified (except the anchor ring is intentionally left out due to the shock cord attachment change), so I concluded that Centuri R&D made all the mods to the plastic nose cone base.

You are likely correct that my Centuri KS-19 V-2 kit is one of the earlier versions issued with the plastic nose cone, since it includes a kit specific addendum. Centuri may have made a little more effort to 'clean up' the plastic nose cone eyelet defect on the one I have, if it was issued earlier. By the time they got around to packaging the kit you purchased, they may have made a little less effort to 'clean up' the defect and simply included the more generic addendum that was sort of all encompassing, rather than have several inserts.

Kind regards,
Jeff Jenkins
aka: Faithwalker
NAR #46879 SR
Attached Thumbnails
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Name:  Centuri_KS-19_V-2_shock_cord_anchor_instructions.jpg
Views: 14
Size:  96.4 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  Centuri_KS-19_V-2_plastic_nose_cone_eyelet.jpg
Views: 23
Size:  37.8 KB  

Last edited by Faithwalker : 05-22-2023 at 12:31 AM. Reason: Added note about anchor ring/shock cord attachment change.
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  #29  
Old 05-22-2023, 08:23 AM
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Solomoriah Solomoriah is offline
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That looks melted. Hot knife?
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  #30  
Old 05-22-2023, 05:34 PM
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Earl Earl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faithwalker
Hi Earl,
Thank you for your posting with the photo of the addendum that was included in your Centuri KS-19 V-2 kit. My Centuri KS-19 V-2 kit has a similar but different shock cord attachment addendum (photo attached).

Also, I've made another attempt at photographing the Centuri KS-19 V-2 kit plastic nose cone base eyelet area. I don't see any distinctive file marks, but the surface of the original eyelet location is smooth in appearance and to the touch. It is possible that the malformed eyelet nubs could have been cut off with a sharp hobby knife or possibly sanded off with very fine sandpaper.

I'm not the original kit owner. When I purchased the Centuri KS-19 V-2 kit, it was sealed with a piece of clear cellophane packaging tape, so it had been previously opened because the factory packaging staples had been removed. It is unknown whether the malformed original eyelet nubs on the plastic nose cone were removed by Centuri or by someone else, but, other than the missing packaging staples, the kit is pristine with nothing missing and nothing else disturbed or modified (except the anchor ring is intentionally left out due to the shock cord attachment change), so I concluded that Centuri R&D made all the mods to the plastic nose cone base.

You are likely correct that my Centuri KS-19 V-2 kit is one of the earlier versions issued with the plastic nose cone, since it includes a kit specific addendum. Centuri may have made a little more effort to 'clean up' the plastic nose cone eyelet defect on the one I have, if it was issued earlier. By the time they got around to packaging the kit you purchased, they may have made a little less effort to 'clean up' the defect and simply included the more generic addendum that was sort of all encompassing, rather than have several inserts.

Kind regards,
Jeff Jenkins
aka: Faithwalker
NAR #46879 SR


Well, I replied to this message earlier today, but I don’t see it here….hmmm….

Basically, I can see your lug ‘remainders’ are far less than mine, and it does seem they have been either cut or filed down; it seems like I can see two small dark points that would appear to be very small openings into the side of the shoulder.

Your shock cord fastener addendum sheet was used by Centuri for a good number of years in their kits. I recall getting mail order kits from them in the latter 70s that still used that addendum, as the instructions themselves had not yet been updated even though by then that ‘new’ shock cord fastener was pushing 6-7 years old. Some kits, like the MX-774 I don’t think ever had their instructions redone to incorporate that fastener.

So, it does seem like there is/was some variation in how that lug looked on cones that were included in the kit bag, some maybe ‘cleaned up’ a bit by Centuri possibly, some others not. It would be interesting to know if ANY of the cones came out of the mold ok. One would think possibly so; your addendum refers directly to the use of that lug. But, it would seem the ‘bad’ ones must have eventually outnumbered the good ones, and with seemingly no fix to the issue, the cone and the kit were discontinued. Would have made a great general purpose cone for their #16 tube.

In comparison, the other three then-new plastic cones that had that same molded-in lug and all released at basically the same time — the Nike Smoke, Quasar/Super Kits, and the Orion — all went on to fairly long lives.

Earl
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