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  #31  
Old 03-03-2022, 08:41 PM
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mbauer mbauer is offline
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Location: Nikiski, Alaska
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbzep
I like playing around with low and slow rockets myself. It's fun experimenting with going less and less total impulse on a draggy model. My son and I have done paper models this way, but not quite the size you are working on. I also like building traditional models with large dia tubes and thick draggy fins for demos at schools.

Your Saturn is borderline at best with a D12-3. They have a total impulse of about 17n/s. The weight isn't so much an issue by itself. I've flown skinny mid power rockets that weighed nearly that much with D12-3's just to be able to fly on a small field. It's the drag that big body will create. You're looking at a motor that pushes the 4" Estes version only to about 100-120 ft on a calm day. Your model will be lucky to get 60-70 ft. It will be really close to the ground when it ejects. Heck, it will be close to the ground at apogee! A cluster of three C6-3's would be a better starting choice, with an impulse of about 27n/s. If it is still slightly going up at ejection, you can try going down to the D12-3. If it is past apogee and dropping a little fast for your liking, go with a 4 C6-3 cluster or move on up to the E12. Fly with zero wind on any of the combinations. That thing is a giant sail.

My son and I took this approach with his Semroc Saturn 1B, playing with motor combinations to tinker with altitudes and liftoff speeds just for fun. Single D12-3, 3 C6-3's, 4 B6's, 4 C6's.


Wow, Thanks for the info. About the sail part-note my hand on my Avatar is holding my rocket steady in a 6mph wind.

Yes, I have an old 1980 version of Estes Saturn V. It didn't go that high. Sure was a favorite at all the launches back then (family and neighbor stuff with the kids).

Does anyone have a RTF weight for this rocket. I still have mine, it is needing repair. Ex took the kids out once, bought the wrong D12 engine and the ejection was on the ground. Salesperson at Hobby Store sold her the wrong engine. Rebuild time.

It's final flight was a CATO that caused some fire damage and blew parts of the internal structure out the bottom. Will rebuild, but it would be nice to know the RTF weight. Mine weighs in at 8.6oz current condition. Was estimating 10oz-that was my goal for this one.

One thing about paper, it tears instead of breaks. This cardstock rocket has been torn apart and re-glued enough times, already looks like it has several hard landings. Part of the rebuilding is what made it heavier than planned. Happens when trying something new.

Going to launch this one, not concerned if it gets damaged, the flight will be to see how it does on the D12-3. Next build will either be the same size, or smaller after that flight, sizing will be a guess, my plan is to remove six inches of length until it works right.

Then the bigger rockets will be powered by E12-4 and E12-6 which I bought with the D12-3 order.

Oh, just for fun- sized a 1/12 size Saturn V. Approx. 45 sheets of 26" x40" cardstock for the shell-internal parts-probably 3-times the sheets. Something that big would need plywood- 33" Diameter x 27.75 feet tall.

Launch:
Winds at 8mph and snow on Saturday; Sunday SUN wind 2mph temp 18 F low, 36 F for the high.. Most fields have between 3ft to 6ft of frozen snow in them. You can walk on in the morning but sink to the bottom in the afternoon when they get wet. Can only launch in the morning if I want to avoid getting the rocket wet. Still going to take snow shoes for recovery just in case a warm night doesn't freeze it solid. They talk about the weather 50-years from now, but haven't got anything right around here lately!

Mike

Last edited by mbauer : 03-03-2022 at 10:20 PM.
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  #32  
Old 03-04-2022, 07:23 AM
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tbzep tbzep is offline
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The up side is that if it goes wonky at liftoff, the worst injury you can get is a paper cut!
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  #33  
Old 03-05-2022, 12:56 AM
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mbauer mbauer is offline
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Default 1/65 Size Saturn V Printed

Printed a 1/65 size Saturn V tonight.

Length is 5ft 1-5/8"
Diameter is 6.09"

Weight Estimated:
Cardstock= 6.5-oz
RTF=9.5-oz

Photo below shows new lighter weight cardstock and a much shorter rocket printed. I placed the new cardstock on top of some old. Notice how white it looks compared to the old.

This is Cover cardstock-designed to be printed on then handled. Tough and the ink looks better!

This is the first model I've used it on. Hoping it works. 24"x40" sheet size.

Great news using longer sheets means 2 sheets and partial page of patterns. Partial page doesn't use much ink, just black lines. Saves big on ink costs.

Mike
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Last edited by mbauer : 03-05-2022 at 01:20 AM. Reason: typo
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  #34  
Old 03-05-2022, 01:06 AM
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mbauer mbauer is offline
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Default Question About Exhaust Bells

I've been building these with the engine bells attached for flight.

How many here would rather they were for display only? Rocket flies without them.

Mike
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  #35  
Old 03-05-2022, 06:50 AM
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Earl Earl is offline
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To me, the Saturn V always looks better with the engine bells on during flight, if one can make it work out ok. Not always practical or easy to do with the 1/100 scale models and live engines in the tail. Plastic bells, like those that come with most flying kits, are either a bit too heavy to try to mod for leaving on for flight or get damaged by the motor flame/heat or upon impact when landing under chute.

Earl
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  #36  
Old 03-05-2022, 07:08 AM
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PaulK PaulK is offline
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Much cooler if it flies with the engine bells on. So your 1:65 is estimated to weigh 9.5oz, my Sirius 1:64 weighs 10 lbs.
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  #37  
Old 03-07-2022, 09:44 PM
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mbauer mbauer is offline
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Default 1/65 Size Work

Weather over weekend was bad. Today windy.

Downsized and printed a 1/65 size version. Used the lighter weight cardstock to see if it will work.

Fuselage shell 1/2 and 3rd stage weigh in at 3.6oz. This is half the finished weight.

Doing something different on this build. Adds some weight but think it will be worth the gain.

Photo of shell next to larger 1/60 size.

Mike
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  #38  
Old 03-08-2022, 12:04 PM
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Mike, very impressive. Once I work my way thru about 200 typical model rocket kits, I may want to try cardstock rockets.

I am sure you will have lots of interest. Have you tried "testing the waters" via the model rocketry groups on Facebook? I am guessing there are some cardstock groups on FB as well.
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Projects: Semroc Saturn 1B, EAC Firecat (Mini HoJo bash), Estes Maxi Honest John
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  #39  
Old 03-09-2022, 12:27 AM
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mbauer mbauer is offline
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Default Special Effects

I have some seriously expensive photo paper. Slickrock Metallic Silver 300 is super expensive and weighs 300gsm while the cardstock weighs 162gsm.

What would I want to use this heavy stuff for?

Well for only a few parts, the Apollo spacecraft, the CSM and Stabilizer Fins, plus engine bells.

Why would I use this $4.65 per 11"x14" size sheet?

Check out the photo for this answer. Yes, it is Paper and ink. You can see standard cardstock version in the background. There is no gloss coating on the paper, it is just paper and ink-same color as background version-this photo paper really is some cool stuff.

Mike
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  #40  
Old 03-09-2022, 12:42 AM
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mbauer mbauer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeR
Mike, very impressive. Once I work my way thru about 200 typical model rocket kits, I may want to try cardstock rockets.

I am sure you will have lots of interest. Have you tried "testing the waters" via the model rocketry groups on Facebook? I am guessing there are some cardstock groups on FB as well.


Hi Lee,

Now, now. You know it had to change the name after everybody starting calling it Faceplant.

Please it is now Meta Faceplant.

Mike
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