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  #1  
Old 06-23-2022, 12:13 AM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Default Soldering question

Hello All,

This question has to do with flight (but not of model rockets, although the information could be used for making custom parachute lighting devices, rocket transmitters, etc.):

I am helping an English fellow develop improved pibal (pilot balloon) lighting devices. After the old-style candle lantern-type pibal lighting units, battery-powered ones--most using water-activated batteries, but some using two carbon stick/acid paste chemistry UM3 (AA) batteries (see pages 20 & 21 in this manual: https://radionerds.com/images/a/ae/...R_ETC._MET..pdf )--were developed in the 1940s, and were sold until about ten years ago (all of them used 2.5 volt, 0.3 amp flashlight bulbs, with either threaded or bayonet-type bases, depending on the manufacturer: https://home.csulb.edu/~mbrenner/balloon.htm & https://www.prc68.com/I/Warren-Knig...ml#PIBAL_Lights [at the bottom of the "screen-page"]). Now:

Both types used/use (some may still be in limited use, from existing stocks) a minimum of stranded, insulated "bell wire," which was soldered directly to the batteries'--and the light bulbs'--contact terminals. My question is:

How is this done? (Just using a soldering "stylus" or a soldering "gun" won't work, because those will heat up the batteries, "using up" a significant portion of their energy by activating their chemo-electric reaction, even if they are modern alkaline or lithium cells.) I *think* such "no heat transfer" (or very little) soldering is done by using a device with a heating element in its bottom, through which molten solder flows (or where a pool of molten solder sits), with the to-be-soldered parts being briefly 'dipped' in the molten solder. Also:

(I think the to-be-soldered joints are lightly 'tacked' together with a little rosin, or are taped together with masking tape [not at the electrical contact points, of course, but near them], with the tape being removed after the solder cools.) Does anyone know what these devices are called, and where one might find them?

Many thanks in advance to anyone who can help!
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  #2  
Old 06-23-2022, 07:04 AM
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Look up spot welding...


Bill
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Old 06-23-2022, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill
Look up spot welding...


Bill
Thank you! I was thinking in terms of soldering (and there are, I just found, specific quick-soldering methods for batteries & wires that can be done rapidly, preventing heat from soaking into--and shortening the lives of--non-rechargeable AA, 9 volt, C, and D carbon stick/acid paste, lithium, mercury, and alkaline batteries). Spot welding (as you suggested) also works well for this, and as well as being easily done via DIY methods and parts, tabletop/workbench-top spot welding units are available from Amazon and other vendors for as little as $20.
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Old 06-23-2022, 09:12 PM
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I use to own a 1/24 Scale Slotcar center, and we had to do a lot of soldering. I used a liquid acid solder flex with built in brush, very thin roll of 60/40 rosin solder. That allowed me to get things stuck quick. I put some solder on the end of my iron, painted the area with the liquid solder flex, touch it for a second, the solder would flow from the iron right to the painted area quickly.

Worked for me.

I attached a picture of the solder flex and irons I still use.
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Old 06-23-2022, 11:07 PM
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Back in the early days of electric-powered RC it was not uncommon to build our own packs from NiCd cells. This involved soldering braid between the cells for side-by-side packs or using a hammer-headed soldering iron that could heat two cells at the same time for building "stick" packs.

In either case the "trick" was a hot soldering iron with a heavy tip that had lots of thermal mass. That way one could transfer heat to the cell quickly without the iron going cold. One tinned the ends of the cells, then tinned the braid, put heat shrink tube over the middle of the braid straps to insulate, then held the braid to a cell and touched them with the hot iron to reflow the solder. Or in the stick case, tin the ends of the cells, put them both in a piece of angle iron or wood (better), put the hammerhead tipped iron in between to heat both, then quickly withdraw it and slam the two cells together....hoping that the resulting solder splatter didn't compromise the vents in the positive ends of the cells.

I still have a hammerhead tip for a 40W Weller soldering iron, but generally I built side-by-side packs.

Back then (1980s) spot welding equipment was neither cheap nor readily available and we wanted/needed current carrying capability from cell to cell well in excess of what the thin steel spot-welded straps could carry without overheating (say up to 60A).

I haven't built a battery like that in a very long time, but I still have a few packs I made from 800AR, 1400 SCR and 1700 SCRC Sanyo NiCd cells. Back then, they were far and away the best for very rapid discharge (in single-digit minutes) and recharge (typically at 4C or in 15 minutes).
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Old 06-23-2022, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash
I use to own a 1/24 Scale Slotcar center, and we had to do a lot of soldering. I used a liquid acid solder flex with built in brush, very thin roll of 60/40 rosin solder. That allowed me to get things stuck quick. I put some solder on the end of my iron, painted the area with the liquid solder flex, touch it for a second, the solder would flow from the iron right to the painted area quickly.

Worked for me.

I attached a picture of the solder flex and irons I still use.
*Nods* Thank you. That very technique (and, I think, at least some of those soldering irons) are in some of the YouTube videos I watched.
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http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
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  #7  
Old 06-23-2022, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEC
Back in the early days of electric-powered RC it was not uncommon to build our own packs from NiCd cells. This involved soldering braid between the cells for side-by-side packs or using a hammer-headed soldering iron that could heat two cells at the same time for building "stick" packs.

In either case the "trick" was a hot soldering iron with a heavy tip that had lots of thermal mass. That way one could transfer heat to the cell quickly without the iron going cold. One tinned the ends of the cells, then tinned the braid, put heat shrink tube over the middle of the braid straps to insulate, then held the braid to a cell and touched them with the hot iron to reflow the solder. Or in the stick case, tin the ends of the cells, put them both in a piece of angle iron or wood (better), put the hammerhead tipped iron in between to heat both, then quickly withdraw it and slam the two cells together....hoping that the resulting solder splatter didn't compromise the vents in the positive ends of the cells.

I still have a hammerhead tip for a 40W Weller soldering iron, but generally I built side-by-side packs.

Back then (1980s) spot welding equipment was neither cheap nor readily available and we wanted/needed current carrying capability from cell to cell well in excess of what the thin steel spot-welded straps could carry without overheating (say up to 60A).

I haven't built a battery like that in a very long time, but I still have a few packs I made from 800AR, 1400 SCR and 1700 SCRC Sanyo NiCd cells. Back then, they were far and away the best for very rapid discharge (in single-digit minutes) and recharge (typically at 4C or in 15 minutes).
Yes, the Boucher brothers (Bob Boucher set an 11+ hour record flying one of his Malibu slope-soaring sailplanes in Hawaii, in 1970) wrote about making up various types of NiCad battery packs, depending on the amount vs. duration of discharge desired (a fast aerobatic plane needing a deeper--but shorter--"discharge curve" than a sailplane or an occasionally-powered, low-powered motor glider), and:

Most of the videos covered the "twice-melted solder" method. A few covered the "cells knock-together and hope" :-) method, but but those people emphasized the need to practice in order to make it work properly. You could have shot some of the YouTube videos I watched (many of their creators didn't say why they needed their battery packs, but they made the same kinds that you did). One difference in several of them was that instead of braid--although some people used it--thin strips of sheet nickel seem to be favored today. Also:

Some folks prefer to use spot welding instead of fast soldering, using either old car or motorcycle batteries (or smaller, lower-capacity batteries and circuits with Field Effect Transistors).
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http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
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Old 06-24-2022, 01:47 AM
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Yes of course the Bouchers were pioneers...and it was really odd when they had a falling out and Bob kept Astro Flight and Roland went on to run Leisure Electronics for some years. Leisure is long gone but it looks like Astro Flight still exists. I haven't heard from Bob Boucher in a very long time.

Keith Shaw was the fellow who knew all the little tricks and taught them to the rest of us, pretty much pre-internet. He was the one who showed us the battery-building technique I described, probably in Model Builder magazine.
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  #9  
Old 06-24-2022, 05:37 PM
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I used to get my soldering supplies from Radio Shack.
They are gone but found that both Hobby Lobby and Michael's carry soldering equipment.
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