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  #1  
Old 08-25-2018, 09:55 PM
csaduck csaduck is offline
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Angry Estes C engine failure

Was at our clubs launch site today, and was using Estes C6-7 engine in a brand new "ready to fly" rocket, the engine blew up on the pad ! All of the wadding, streamer and fire blew out both ends, burning a hole in the body and starting the grass on fire. Needless to say, this was a bad start for my day. Anyone one else have C engines blow up ?
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  #2  
Old 08-25-2018, 10:15 PM
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ghrocketman ghrocketman is offline
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That's a real rarity outside of the bad batch of C5-3's two decades ago.
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Old 08-26-2018, 02:27 AM
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Royatl Royatl is offline
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We call that a 'cato' (short for a catastropic failure, though it is only one mode of it). The larger a black powder motor is, the more likely this can happen, but it is still unlikely. If a motor fails, it should do so by spitting the nozzle, though often it does something else , like spitting the propellant out the front, or even splitting the casing.

Do you still have the casing? You should note the date code on it, and go to http://motorcato.org/MESSForm.aspx to report it. Also send the information to Estes Customer Service at 1295 H Street, Penrose, CO 81240. They'll try to use the information to understand what happened, and they will probably send you a replacement pack of motors (and a kit if yours was damaged).

smaller motors rarely cato. It is usually seen in D and above motors. But it does happen from time to time.

Most of the time they are caused by poor storage. Left in a hot car, or stored in a hot attic, then fired when cool or cold. Or left in high humidity that could weaken the clay nozzle or the casing. Sometime there are manufacturing defects, but those are generally less common.
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Old 08-26-2018, 06:56 AM
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mycrofte mycrofte is offline
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Most of my small motor failures have been from storing them in the garage. The temperature changes cause the propellant to separate from the casing wall. I keep them all in the bedroom closet now.
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Old 08-26-2018, 11:56 AM
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astronwolf astronwolf is offline
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C6 motors seldom cato. Sorry that you drew the short straw on this one.

WAY more important than filling out the MESS report - contact Estes customer service and they will send you replacement model rocket and motor.

719-372-6565, extension 216

or by email webcs at estesrockets.com
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  #6  
Old 08-26-2018, 05:41 PM
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bernomatic bernomatic is offline
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Sorry to hear about your loss.
The issue with the MESS reports is you can't get any information from the agency collecting them that I could find. They hold all their cards close to the vest.

At the Sagitta Cantina, we have a section where individuals post information on their CATOS's (or other issues) and anybody can read the information.

Why don't you stop by and give us a hand? Cantina S.A.M.E. report forum

Any information you can give is appreciated, especially if you have the batch no. of the engine. (Batch numbers of any package of engines are the same, that I have found)
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What's your idea on the best way to change Washington D.C.?
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We're looking for a few good Catos, please tell us about any you may have had. Survey of Anecdotal Malfunctioning Engines or S.A.M.E.
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  #7  
Old 08-29-2018, 12:30 AM
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GlenP GlenP is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mycrofte
...temperature changes cause the propellant to separate from the casing wall...


I think that is what happened to me a few years ago, though only to one of a 3 pack of C6-0 engines. I was attempting to launch my original Centuri Alien Scoutship Flying Saucer that I built when I was a kid at my son's Cub Scout launch. The cato in my case was more of a zero-thrust, slow molten burning fuel dripping out of the bottom of the crumbled nozzle on the pad and ground which singed the cardstock saucer rocket a little before all the fuel burned itself out. I had stored that pack in my garage and it had gone through a few extreme seasonal temperature changes.
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  #8  
Old 08-29-2018, 12:45 AM
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bernomatic bernomatic is offline
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Just to let certain factions know I understand why they are reluctant to release the MESS numbers, I went into a bit of detail on statistics over on the Cantina and why we just use anecdotal information there.

MESS vs. SAME some philosophy
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What's your idea on the best way to change Washington D.C.?
Let us know at the Cantina
Sagitta Cantina

We're looking for a few good Catos, please tell us about any you may have had. Survey of Anecdotal Malfunctioning Engines or S.A.M.E.
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  #9  
Old 08-30-2018, 07:06 PM
csaduck csaduck is offline
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Thumbs up Update on Estes Engine failure.

I emailed Estes a detailed summation as to what had happened. Included several photo's of the engine nozzle being cracked and partially blown out, the burnt rocket and of course a photo of the blown apart pieces on the launchpad.
After 3 days, got no response, so I called today. They are sending me replacement pack of engines, and a new rocket ! Also reminded me to store all engines in closed moisture resistant containers out of extreme temperatures. I mentioned I had been storing them in metal US Army Ammo cans and she said that would be perfect, and store in a cool dry place.
She had no info as to a production problem or quality problem, so I guess just a bad engine.
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