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Old 09-30-2019, 12:22 PM
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Default Starships and Raptors

I'm enjoying the progress of SpaceX and their fast timetables. Musk says that Starship construction will be quick and that Raptor production will be the limiting factor. Then he mentioned that it currently takes about 8-10 days to build a Raptor and he expects to get it down to 1 per day in the next year.

Musk reminds me a little of Enzo Ferrari who started making production cars to fund his racing addiction. The Falcon 9 contracts fund his large scale manned projects.

After decades of NASA and its contractors moving at sub-snail pace, it's nice to see something that reminds me of of aviation and spaceflight of the 50's and early 60's where a fighter might be obsolete by the time it got into service and a newer, faster, cooler jet was released right on its heels! U-2's went from paper to bending metal in a matter of weeks and first flight in less than a year. It probably took longer to approve it than to get it in the air. Saturn progression went from Von Braun's mind to Block 1, Block 2, 1B, and V within just a few short years!

https://spaceflightnow.com/2019/09/...acexs-starship/
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Old 09-30-2019, 02:38 PM
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The perceived threat we had from the USSR during the Cold War pushed so much of the military aircraft development and, subsequently, the space race related technology developments. With that threat largely perceived to be gone, the push for faster development certainly declined. And too, there is a natural 'fast pace' of technical developments early on in many endeavors that begins to slow down as the boundaries of known technology and materials begins to hit a bit of a 'wall'. Various social programs began taking bigger and bigger portions of the national budget also and the relatively slimmer bureaucracies of the 40s and 50s gave way to the much larger, red-tape infested governmental organizations of the 70s, 80s and 90s.

I think there is still a threat, though now largely more economic than military, but still a military threat on a somewhat lesser level. But, we have shown over and over as a nation that many times we need a fire lit under our bottoms before we REALLY get moving on something. When that happens, not many can touch us. But, it seems we have to be kicked away from our arm chairs sometimes before we get properly motivated.

But yes, it is VERY nice to see all these developments come rolling out so quickly these days from private enterprise. It will be very interesting to see this huge Starship design in flight, even a 65,000 foot hop.


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Old 09-30-2019, 06:43 PM
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I noticed they said it would put 150,000 lb into LEO and bragged about how much bigger and better it will be than the Saturn V. Yes, its bigger and will more thrust if they put the ~30ish Raptors under it, but the resuable nature of the Starship limits it's LEO capability to half of the Saturn V. STILL THE KING!
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Old 09-30-2019, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbzep
I noticed they said it would put 150,000 lb into LEO and bragged about how much bigger and better it will be than the Saturn V. Yes, its bigger and will more thrust if they put the ~30ish Raptors under it, but the resuable nature of the Starship limits it's LEO capability to half of the Saturn V. STILL THE KING!

For lifting only, quite true. But each Saturn-V vehicle (not including payload and launch cost) cost about $110 million in 1970 dollars, which would be about $700 million today.

IF the Starship plan works, SpaceX can make a LOT of flights for $700 million due to re-use, far more total payload than a Saturn-V, and with a "free" spacecraft. And again, *if* it works. And that's using Starship itself (after refueling in LEO) as the "payload" for Mars (or moon, but I'm leery of them doing the moon), no extra costs for additional one-shot spacecraft or landers.

It could be glorious. But it also could be a house of cards. I'm not a Kool-Aid drinking Elon Musk worshipper.

We'll see what happens.
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Old 10-01-2019, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by georgegassaway
It could be glorious. But it also could be a house of cards. I'm not a Kool-Aid drinking Elon Musk worshipper.

We'll see what happens.

I'm not either, but I've enjoyed his company's progress much more than Bezos'.
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Old 02-05-2020, 12:07 PM
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Some newer pictures of Space X Starship which is planed at this point. It will have around 16 million pounds of trust from 37 raptor engines. Rocket will stand around 387’ tail x 30’ dia.

https://youtu.be/wzFQJUzoUvM
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Old 02-05-2020, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash
Some newer pictures of Space X Starship which is planed at this point. It will have around 16 million pounds of trust from 37 raptor engines. Rocket will stand around 387’ tail x 30’ dia.

https://youtu.be/wzFQJUzoUvM

Hmmm. Any 3.6" tubing available for a 1/100 scale model?

BT-100 is about 3.77" iirc. It's either that or cut a slit out of BT-101.


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Old 02-05-2020, 02:10 PM
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I would have to say with the extra fins at the bottom of the newest design, sure makes for a more interesting model.

But would be harder to add outboard boosters to if ever needed as compared to the earlier design.
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Old 02-05-2020, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash
I would have to say with the extra fins at the bottom of the newest design, sure makes for a more interesting model.

But would be harder to add outboard boosters to if ever needed as compared to the earlier design.

Just yank a fin off slap a booster in the fin location. If stability is needed, enlarge the remaining fins slightly. They could do it pretty much on the fly if the core is already designed with hardpoints for future boosters. If not, the core would have to be redesigned anyway.
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Old 02-05-2020, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash
Some newer pictures of Space X Starship which is planed at this point. It will have around 16 million pounds of trust from 37 raptor engines. Rocket will stand around 387’ tail x 30’ dia.

https://youtu.be/wzFQJUzoUvM


Wow, that is a monster. With that cluster arrangement, I hope it does not turn out to be the N1, Ver. 2.0


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