Ye Olde Rocket Forum

Go Back   Ye Olde Rocket Forum > The Golden Age of Model Rocketry > Plans & Publications
User Name
Password
Auctions Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts Search Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-11-2020, 01:30 PM
Earl's Avatar
Earl Earl is offline
Apollo Nut
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,893
Default Prodyne 1963 Catalog

Here is a very old school Prodyne 1963 catalog that I got about a year or so ago. Fairly short, but offers yet another glimpse of early rocketry designs and materials.

This was the company founded by John Rahkonen in Utah, who was a Morton Thiokol engineer back in the day. He passed way in 2009.

Some of his 'Hurricane' motor components are, as a matter of fact, for sale on eBay right now through the following eBayer (they have casings AND graphite nozzles, which are in a separate listing). Not my listing nor do I know the lister personally.

Link: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-20-...AAOSw9nZfTKj 0


Earl
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Prodyne 1963 Catalog.pdf (1.29 MB, 166 views)
__________________
Earl L. Cagle, Jr.
NAR# 29523
TRA# 962
SAM# 73
Owner/Producer
Point 39 Productions

Rocket-Brained Since 1970
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-11-2020, 04:48 PM
astronwolf's Avatar
astronwolf astronwolf is offline
Lost his Drifter
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 1,277
Default

This is illuminating. I thought that the famous "Enerjet 8" was the first rubber propellant motor on the market. These are composite fuel propellants, right?
__________________
-Wolfram v. Kiparski
NAR 28643 - TRA 15520
MTMA Section #606 President
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-11-2020, 04:57 PM
Earl's Avatar
Earl Earl is offline
Apollo Nut
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,893
Default

John made composite motors at some point (and fairly early, too, as I recall), but I *think* the motors offered in this 1963 catalog are black powder.

Anyone else have further history data on ProDyne’s motor offerings?

Earl
__________________
Earl L. Cagle, Jr.
NAR# 29523
TRA# 962
SAM# 73
Owner/Producer
Point 39 Productions

Rocket-Brained Since 1970
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-11-2020, 05:36 PM
Green Dragon Green Dragon is offline
AL Swackhammer , power freak
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New York
Posts: 1,255
Default

I always thought the Prodyne motors were composite as well, interesting.

What I do know is that the nozzles on the Hurricane and Cyclone motors were ceramic , not graphite ( think Composite Dynamics / ProJet style )


I did order a set of the casings an dlables- not the casings are the Cyclone 1" od, and a strange convolute wound phenolic, not 'plastic' in the molded sense.
Huricane labels would be for 29mm sized motors, although I did get one Cyclone one mixed in.
The graphite nozzles offered are larger dia. aprox 2" - and I'm guessing those are for / from the composite K700 Prodyne motors
( I have my flwon K700 case out in the shop someplace, 2.5" dia.. these had a single star shaped core, no bates grains, progressive type thrust curve. interesting motor as well )

AL
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-11-2020, 06:08 PM
heada heada is offline
Mildly Insane
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Central Indiana
Posts: 83
Default

How did the ceramic nozzles hold up compared to graphite ones? I've always thought it'd be easier/cleaner to mold and fire ceramic nozzles vs turn graphite ones.
__________________
Aaron Head
NAR 83209 L2
TRA 11803 L2
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-11-2020, 06:15 PM
shockwaveriderz shockwaveriderz is offline
rocket dinosaur
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: My Old Kentucky Home
Posts: 1,184
Smile

Earl:

Attached is what John Rahkonen sent me about 10 to 15 years ago.

I spoke to him on phone a few times prior to this.

He was a big-time amateur Rocketeer, and then he met G. Harry Stine.

At one point in around 1960 John had an Amateur Rocketry event going on the same field AT THE SAME TIME ,while G.Harry Stine was having a model rocket meet .

John is credited as the father of APCP as he developed it in the early 60's while working at Thiokol in Utah.
Paavo John Rahkonen started Rocket Technology Corporation in the early 1960s.

The company's plans to produce model rocket motors, in competition with Estes, never reached fruition and Rocket Technology folded after producing just one kit, a flying scale model of the German V-2 missile.

Rahkonen was born in Brooklyn, New York, on January 16, 1930. He studied at the USAF Institute of Technology and worked for the Air Force for six years then at Republic Aviation, Curtiss-Wright, and Martin.

At Morton-Thiokol in Utah, Rahkonen invented Ammonium Perchlorate Composite Propellant.

In the early 1990s, Rahkonen's Propulsion Dynamics (Prodyne) introduced a line of hobby rocket motors under the "Cyclone" label as well as a K700 composite motor.

There's an article here about mixing APCP:

http://www.gorgerocketclub.com/wp-c...-Part-2of-3.pdf

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-15-...te/203120227928

I have a 1964 Pyrodyne catalog....it's exactly the same as the 1963 one.

EDIT:

From: Space (Incorporating Speed Age) April 1960.

Rocket Fever article picture caption "In Denver Col., members of
Nat'l Ass'n of Rocketry fire small rockets, propelled by tiny commercial
motors, at group's Hog Back range."
(from text) "Rocketry flourishes in the area of Denver Colorado, for instance, where G. Harry Stine has
organized the National Association of Rocketry and channels the interest
of many teenagers into the pursuit of scientific knowledge through rocket
experimentation. This association operates what they call the Hogback
Firing Range, where hundreds of small rockets are fired every month.

A colleague of Stine's, John Rakhonen, supervises a very active group that
gets into some pretty advanced phases of the art. Rakhonen himself, who
has been conducting a long range research project for the past six years
in an attempt tp develop a high-performance amateur propellant, lays claim
to what may be the all-time amateur record for altitude. A small, but very
highly refined three-stage design he perfected was credited with an
altitude of 83,500 feet about a year-and-a-half ago. Unfortunately,
however, he has no definitive proof of the record flight."

https://youtu.be/uLn_x-vwRU0
Terry Dean
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:  Prodyne_NAR_TR203.jpg
Views: 46
Size:  130.9 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  Prodyne_NAR_TR202.jpg
Views: 38
Size:  317.2 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  Prodyne_NAR_TR201.jpg
Views: 45
Size:  368.2 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  Prodyne_Letters4.jpg
Views: 36
Size:  262.3 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  Prodyne_Letters3.jpg
Views: 34
Size:  265.6 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  Prodyne_Letters2.jpg
Views: 35
Size:  238.3 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  ProDyne_764_PriceList.jpg
Views: 43
Size:  141.4 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  Prodyne_Letters1.jpg
Views: 39
Size:  271.7 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  Prodyne_NAR_TR204.jpg
Views: 41
Size:  138.9 KB  
__________________
"Old Rocketeer's don't die; they just go OOP".....unless you 3D print them.

Last edited by shockwaveriderz : 11-11-2020 at 06:39 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-11-2020, 09:35 PM
Earl's Avatar
Earl Earl is offline
Apollo Nut
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,893
Default

Terry-

Some great vintage documentation there that helps us all to have a better appreciation of ProDyne’s place in the history of model rocketry. I remember having read a few of those points in various readings over the years, but not in such ‘oriignal’ document sources.

I recall John being at LDRS-10 but I never got a chance to talk to him (seems he arrived late one day with a handful of other folks, as I recall).

So, are the motors in the ‘63 catalog (well, ‘64 too I guess) BP motors or are they composites? My impression was that these particular motors were BP, but that John was making composites during that era also.

Thanks again for the background info.

Earl
__________________
Earl L. Cagle, Jr.
NAR# 29523
TRA# 962
SAM# 73
Owner/Producer
Point 39 Productions

Rocket-Brained Since 1970
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-12-2020, 05:22 AM
A Fish Named Wallyum A Fish Named Wallyum is offline
BP Mafia
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Ft. Thomas, KY
Posts: 8,596
Default

Guess I'll need to figure out how to make a faux-Prodyne Swallow for the next build season.
__________________
Bill Eichelberger
NAR 79563

http://wallyum.blogspot.com/

I miss being SAM 0058

Build floor: Centuri Design Contest F-150 Hurricane Estes - Low Boom SST Semroc - Gee'Hod, Shrike, SST Shuttle

In paint: Canaroc Starfighter Scorpion Estes F-22 Air Superiority Fighter, Solar Sailer II Semroc Cyber III

Ready to fly: Estes - Multi-Roc, Solar Sailer II Semroc - Earmark, Snake Jumper
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-12-2020, 07:16 AM
tbzep's Avatar
tbzep tbzep is offline
Dazed and Confused
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: TN
Posts: 11,610
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shockwaveriderz
From: Space (Incorporating Speed Age) April 1960.

the all-time amateur record for altitude. A small, but very
highly refined three-stage design he perfected was credited with an
altitude of 83,500 feet about a year-and-a-half ago.
Terry Dean

All those altitude projects in recent years can bite one...John did it over 60 years ago! With his pedigree, I'll take his word as proof.
__________________
I love sanding.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-12-2020, 09:32 AM
shockwaveriderz shockwaveriderz is offline
rocket dinosaur
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: My Old Kentucky Home
Posts: 1,184
Default

From my telephone conservations it was my understanding they were Black Powder..... but GHS states they are a proprietary composite....... and he also say the Isp is 80-85s..... If I remember correctly Estes BP is/was 70-75 Isp

Since John was a composite specialist it leads me to believe they were composites.....

and in 1939 John(Jack) Parsons mixed BP with Asphalt as a binder in his BP rocket experiments ....so.......it's not beyond the realm of possibility that these were composites: but with BP and an energetic binder to raise the Isp... specific impulse

I have some other documents I will have to look at, but at the very end of Prodyne's existence, John may have made some composite versions of these BP motors. It may take a few to find the box.

EDIT:

New Model Rocket Company. Scientific Amateur Supply Co., P.O. Box 732, Ogden, Utah, is headed up by my old rocket-shootin' buddy and Thiokol propellent chemist John Rahkonen. Outfit has a line of plastic nose cones, tracking aids, electrical igniters, and two rocket engines. One produces an average thrust of 1.3 pounds for 4 seconds; the other, 2.5 pounds for 6 seconds. Can be had with time delay and ejection charge.

These advertised specs are being checked by the NAR Testing Committee.

Glenn Ford (not the movie actor) of Granada Hills, Calif. queries about Class E and Class F engines. All Coaster engines are Class F. Some of the new SASCO engines are Class F, perhaps Class E also when testing shows classifi*cation. Class E engines have 4.01 to 8.0 lb-sec. total impulse; Class Fare 8.01 to 16.0 lb-sec,

from GHS March/April 1963



Terry Dean
__________________
"Old Rocketeer's don't die; they just go OOP".....unless you 3D print them.

Last edited by shockwaveriderz : 11-12-2020 at 11:56 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:29 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ye Olde Rocket Shoppe © 1998-2024