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  #1  
Old 11-12-2022, 05:26 PM
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Default Sad Loss — B-17 and P-63 Collide at Dallas Air Show

What a sad loss of life and two classic aircraft.

It appears the P-63 was in a banking turn and probably trying to merge into the other aircraft making an approach over the airfield and just essentially cut the B-17 in half.

Video link: https://twitter.com/JasonWhitely/st...%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

There are a number of other amateur videos already posted here and there of the crash, but this one seemed to show the best angle of the P-63 ‘merging’ into the B-17. Not sure the P-63 pilot even saw the B-17 under his belly, as the P-63 seemed to be in a decent banking turn at the time with the underside of his aircraft toward the B-17.

One would assume all on board both craft were lost. Can’t imagine anyone surviving that.

Earl
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Old 11-12-2022, 11:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl
Not sure the P-63 pilot even saw the B-17 under his belly, as the P-63 seemed to be in a decent banking turn at the time with the underside of his aircraft toward the B-17.

Hard to say for sure, but that was what I thought after seeing the collision. The P-63 pilot might have had an Oscar Sierra moment in the split second before collision. It didn't look like any attempt was made to correct at the last moment. Terrible accident. So sad.
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Old 11-13-2022, 01:04 AM
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The last I checked, they were still trying to determine how many unfortunate souls were aboard the B-17.
Just tragic.
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Old 11-13-2022, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
The last I checked, they were still trying to determine how many unfortunate souls were aboard the B-17.
Just tragic.


Six dead. Five on the B-17 and one on the P-63.
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Old 11-13-2022, 09:04 AM
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B-17 In Horrific Mid-Air Collision At Dallas Airshow (Updated)
Local authorities are responding after the fiery crash in Dallas’ Oak Cliff neighborhood.
NOV 12, 2022


https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...-dallas-airshow

The B-17:

https://www.thedrive.com/uploads/20...50657161071.jpg

The P-63:

https://www.thedrive.com/uploads/20...661932291-1.jpg
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Old 11-13-2022, 10:16 AM
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I have to believe the Kingcobra pilot had a medical event. There is no way he didn't see the merge if he was conscious and lucid. While the P-63 is no Spitfire, it only had to change a few degrees in any direction to miss the B-17. Instead, he smoked it dead center and separated the whole wing from the fuselage.
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Old 11-13-2022, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbzep
I have to believe the Kingcobra pilot had a medical event. There is no way he didn't see the merge if he was conscious and lucid. While the P-63 is no Spitfire, it only had to change a few degrees in any direction to miss the B-17. Instead, he smoked it dead center and separated the whole wing from the fuselage.


Obviously, it is hard to know at this point just what happened. It could have been a medical event. My first reaction is that he simply did not see the B-17 'under' him as he was in that banking turn, and then just flew right through the B-17. Obviously, he SHOULD have seen it, but the fact that he made NO attempt at trying to avoid hitting it at the last second would seem to indicate he did not know it was there.

And since he was in an 'active' turning event, requiring him to put physical force on the yoke and pedals to make that turn, I'm wondering that IF it was a medical event, might his input force on the yoke (i.e., making the turn) have gone limp, and therefore would not have continued in the turning radius that it was still doing when the impact occurred. Hard to know when all the participants are sadly deceased.

With no data recorders one would assume they may never know exactly why the P-36 just plowed right into that B-17. Tragic accident no doubt.

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Old 11-13-2022, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl
Obviously, it is hard to know at this point just what happened. It could have been a medical event. My first reaction is that he simply did not see the B-17 'under' him as he was in that banking turn, and then just flew right through the B-17. Obviously, he SHOULD have seen it, but the fact that he made NO attempt at trying to avoid hitting it at the last second would seem to indicate he did not know it was there.

And since he was in an 'active' turning event, requiring him to put physical force on the yoke and pedals to make that turn, I'm wondering that IF it was a medical event, might his input force on the yoke (i.e., making the turn) have gone limp, and therefore would not have continued in the turning radius that it was still doing when the impact occurred. Hard to know when all the participants are sadly deceased.

With no data recorders one would assume they may never know exactly why the P-36 just plowed right into that B-17. Tragic accident no doubt.

Earl


This analysis just came out, worth viewing: https://youtu.be/Sceufd1Xutc
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Old 11-13-2022, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwmzmm
This analysis just came out, worth viewing: https://youtu.be/Sceufd1Xutc


Thanks for posting. Interesting analysis.

Seems like he pretty much believes the P-36 pilot just did not see the B-17 at all. It certainly appears that way. I guess the main questions to be answered, if they CAN be answered, is whether the various aircraft were in their proper places in the parade route, did air traffic control mis-direct anyone, and was the P-36 pilot flying at faster than needed speed. It will take some time to sort out all those details.

Sad loss of life and loss of two very rare aircraft. I think I read the B-17 was only one of nine flying examples and the P-36 one of only four flying examples in the US.

Earl
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Old 11-13-2022, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl
Thanks for posting. Interesting analysis.

Seems like he pretty much believes the P-36 pilot just did not see the B-17 at all. It certainly appears that way. I guess the main questions to be answered, if they CAN be answered, is whether the various aircraft were in their proper places in the parade route, did air traffic control mis-direct anyone, and was the P-36 pilot flying at faster than needed speed. It will take some time to sort out all those details.

Sad loss of life and loss of two very rare aircraft. I think I read the B-17 was only one of nine flying examples and the P-36 one of only four flying examples in the US.

Earl

There is an aviation forum that I'm a regular on - one of the leading theories is "target fixation" - the P-63 (not P-36) had somehow gotten too far behind the other fighters he was supposed to be with and was focused on returning to the fighter formation. The olive drab B-17 blended into the forest background and the P-63 pilot didn't notice it until it was too late.

Very sad - I'm a long time supporter for the Commemorative Air Force and have fond memories of seeing them with my parents in Colorado Springs as part of the 4th of July 1976 bicentennial celebration (known as the Confederate AF back then).
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