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  #1  
Old 01-28-2013, 10:45 PM
A Fish Named Wallyum's Avatar
A Fish Named Wallyum A Fish Named Wallyum is offline
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Default FSI Mach 1 booster

I have an original FSI Dart and am cloning a sacrificial Dart to fly on a Estes E9 or E12, and I'd like to build a booster to go with both. Does anyone have a booster that they could measure know of someplace that has the specs? Short of that, I'm planning to fake it.
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Bill Eichelberger
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http://wallyum.blogspot.com/

I miss being SAM 0058

On the build floor: Estes Nike Apache, PemTech Kraken, Semroc S.P.E.V

Rediscovered: Semroc Laser X, Semroc SLS Laser X

In paint: Centuri Stellar Hercules, Centuri Zebra II, Estes Alpha, Estes Monarch, Semroc Squire

In the body shop: Estes Jayhawk, TLP Perseus

Ready to fly: Estes Astron Farside X, Estes Astron Apogee, FRW Star Jart
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  #2  
Old 01-29-2013, 10:35 AM
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Chas Russell Chas Russell is offline
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Bubba Bill,

I have the instructions for the FSI Dart and the Mach 1 Systems Thruster. Don't recall how I got them as I never had the model. I will scan them and post them later. Essentially, the Thruster is just a F100-0 motor that has fins and two launch lugs on it. They rounded the forward section of the booster - I am guessing they just ground it - so that it tapers toward the Dart ad its D20-12 motor. FSI catalog lists F100 dimensions as 27mm x 150mm.
I have to scan to a memory card on one computer and transfer it to the better computer.

Chas
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Last edited by Chas Russell : 01-29-2013 at 10:45 AM. Reason: Added motor dimensions.
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  #3  
Old 01-29-2013, 11:13 AM
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Here is a start...
Having trouble loading the second page. File may be too big, but I am not getting that error.
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:21 AM
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Thruster System
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  #5  
Old 01-29-2013, 03:24 PM
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Thanks, Chas. That answers a couple of other questions as well. Interesting concept, but with the lack of F100's at Hobby Lobby, I guess I'll just have to wing it and build a "close enough" Mach 1.
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Bill Eichelberger
NAR 79563

http://wallyum.blogspot.com/

I miss being SAM 0058

On the build floor: Estes Nike Apache, PemTech Kraken, Semroc S.P.E.V

Rediscovered: Semroc Laser X, Semroc SLS Laser X

In paint: Centuri Stellar Hercules, Centuri Zebra II, Estes Alpha, Estes Monarch, Semroc Squire

In the body shop: Estes Jayhawk, TLP Perseus

Ready to fly: Estes Astron Farside X, Estes Astron Apogee, FRW Star Jart
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  #6  
Old 01-29-2013, 03:33 PM
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An FSI F100 was really a 42F48 so an AT E50 is darn close to the performance.

The F100-0 used in the Mach 1 Dart kit was drilled a bit to get closer to actual zero staging delay. The stock F100-0 motors typically had a 2-4 sec delay since it is the bulkhead.

I believe it is physically impossible for an FSI F100 to D20 to break Mach. However it was faster than any other kit and came close enough that the casual user would believe it did.

Thank goodness we didn't have good electronics yet. It makes the magic feel more real.

In re-reading those instructions it specifically says not to check continuity of the system. The M100 (electric match or Atlas match) was a low voltage igniter that a typical incandescent light continuity circuit would trigger. Interesting they presumed folks would remember that key safety tip. No lawyers in that loop!

Jerry

Speaking of phunnie . . . . .

Sonic Boom point calculation 
program copyright 1983 Jerry Irvine 
Where to stand to hear the sonic boom! 
The answer is a donut shaped around the launch site. *Can't hear the boom 
in the hole or outside the donut. The actual reality is the donut is a 
different diameter and thickness vs time.
Boomap.bas 
Copyright 1983 Jerry Irvine
5 PRINT "Program name BOOMAP.BAS * * " 
7 PRINT " * * " 
8 DIM E(20),F(20),G(20) 
10 PRINT "PROGRAM TO DETERMINE OPTIMUM" 
20 PRINT "SONIC BOOM LISTENING POSITIONS" 
30 PRINT "BY MEANS OF A SONIC BOOM" 
32 PRINT "FOOTPRINT MAP" 
33 PRINT " * * " 
34 PRINT " * * " 
35 PRINT "" 
40 PRINT "" 
50 PRINT " * * " 
60 PRINT " * * " 
65 I=1 
70 INPUT "ENTER NUMBER OF ROCKET POSTIONS: ",N 
75 PRINT " * * " 
80 INPUT "ENTER ROCKET HEIGHT (FT): ",H 
90 INPUT "ENTER ROCKET VELOCITY (FT/SEC): ",V 
100 INPUT "ENTER SPEED OF SOUND AT LAUNCH SITE (FT/SEC): ",C 
102 A=0.0 
107 A=A+0.00025 
110 S=SIN(A) 
120 D=1/(V/C) 
130 IF S>=D THEN 150 
135 GO TO 107 
150 E(I)=H 
160 F(I)=V/C 
165 Y=TAN(A) 
166 Y=Y*H 
170 G(I)=Y 
180 I=I+1 
190 IF I>N THEN 198 
195 PRINT " * * " 
196 GO TO 80 
198 PRINT " * * " 
200 PRINT "HEIGHT(FT) * MACH N0 * DISTANCE FROM LAUNCHER" 
210 PRINT "---------------------------------------------" 
220 FOR I=1 TO N 
230 PRINT E(I),F(I),G(I) 
240 NEXT I 
250 END

Install your own line feeds and find a BASIC interpreter.
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Exemptions not regulations ACHIEVED. U.S. Rockets instaship. http://bit.ly/1aca7mA Model rocketry is as safe as safe can be defined in human existence. Bow and pray: GH Stine, Orville, Vern, Lee, Lonnie, Carl, etc. No, really. U.S. Rockets released first moonburner Toy Rockets G30, TRA first certified motor: H, invented LMR, HPR, Firestarter, reloadables 1-90, and now . . . ACHIEVED. LDRS-1 I200!!

Last edited by Jerry Irvine : 01-29-2013 at 04:17 PM.
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  #7  
Old 01-29-2013, 04:31 PM
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Thanks for the details on the F100 Thruster Jerry. I knew it wasn't a "standard" F100 (were any of them when hand pressed?).

I believe the fins were the standard Nova fins. I still have the nose cone, fins, and adapter from the Nova I built back in '68. Had a set from SEMROC, but either used them or misplaced them.

Still can't get the second page of the Dart instructions to load with attachments. Bother.

Chas
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  #8  
Old 01-29-2013, 04:33 PM
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Jerry Irvine Jerry Irvine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chas Russell
I believe the fins were the standard Nova fins.
Agreed. If you email me the trouble file, I can reformat it and upload it. 01rocket@gte.net
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Exemptions not regulations ACHIEVED. U.S. Rockets instaship. http://bit.ly/1aca7mA Model rocketry is as safe as safe can be defined in human existence. Bow and pray: GH Stine, Orville, Vern, Lee, Lonnie, Carl, etc. No, really. U.S. Rockets released first moonburner Toy Rockets G30, TRA first certified motor: H, invented LMR, HPR, Firestarter, reloadables 1-90, and now . . . ACHIEVED. LDRS-1 I200!!

Last edited by Jerry Irvine : 01-29-2013 at 05:23 PM.
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  #9  
Old 01-29-2013, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A Fish Named Wallyum
I have an original FSI Dart and am cloning a sacrificial Dart to fly on a Estes E9 or E12, and I'd like to build a booster to go with both. Does anyone have a booster that they could measure know of someplace that has the specs? Short of that, I'm planning to fake it.


I posted a RockSim of a Mach-1 Dart with the booster and I can check my PC at home for the file.

I built a few boosters back in the day to resemble the thruster. An example is here with a few notes on how I made this one with Semroc parts:

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/show...67&postcount=85

I will get the dimensions I used. Should be close to the F100 dimensions Chas posted only made from Semroc FSI equivalent tubing.

When Estes releases the F booster motor I'll be building more of these ...


.
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Irvine
The F100-0 used in the Mach 1 Dart kit was drilled a bit to get closer to actual zero staging delay. The stock F100-0 motors typically had a 2-4 sec delay since it is the bulkhead.

Jerry


I noticed the difference while sighting down the fore end of the RX-1 that it was modified comparing to my standard F100's. The added black powder grains were shiny. I thought it resembled clear nail polish. i believe carbons4 said it was nitrocellulose to aid in staging. Also the obvious taper Chas mentioned that looked like it was ground on the fore end.

Definitely drilled as you said and widened on the top end to allow the D20 to slip fit inside.

A really cool system no doubt and advanced compared to anything else I was flying at that time. Turned heads at any launch I flew one at. I sure miss flying those!


.
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