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  #11  
Old 07-06-2020, 11:58 AM
Ltvscout Ltvscout is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
+1 to what Bill just said above...
Let's not go there and violate what Steve does NOT want to see here.
I will however say I'm very glad Estes has continued to produce all motors in the USA.

Steve?
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  #12  
Old 07-06-2020, 12:57 PM
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Earl Earl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ltvscout
Steve?


Aww, man! We told GH 20 times not to mention here what we call you at the, um, 'meetings'!
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  #13  
Old 07-06-2020, 01:11 PM
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tbzep tbzep is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl
Aww, man! We told GH 20 times not to mention here what we call you at the, um, 'meetings'!

Dang. Now the secret code name is out.
Now we have to swap out decoder rings. "On the other hand, if we stayed on the odd channels, switched every time and started in the basement, that'd work, too. - That'd do it, too, wouldn't it?" (Smokey and the Bandit)
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  #14  
Old 07-06-2020, 01:53 PM
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Earl Earl is offline
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Originally Posted by tbzep
Dang. Now the secret code name is out.
Now we have to swap out decoder rings. "On the other hand, if we stayed on the odd channels, switched every time and started in the basement, that'd work, too. - That'd do it, too, wouldn't it?" (Smokey and the Bandit)


Ok, we'll have to call an emergency meeting. Send out a special meeting announcement on the 'Alpha September' distribution list and instruct all members to bring their own nominations for a new code name for 'Steve'. Password to the meeting will be "The Eagle has landed. The fat man walks alone." To be held in meeting room Zebra Tango, usual building.

Earl
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  #15  
Old 07-06-2020, 02:16 PM
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ghrocketman ghrocketman is offline
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Sorry, Scott.
My own fault. Did not re-look at the auto-typing.
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  #16  
Old 07-08-2020, 12:06 AM
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eljefe eljefe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEC
Note that Estes motors are made in Penrose, Colorado as they always have been since Vern moved the first Mabel machine from Denver to Penrose many moons ago. And the body tubes in Estes kits are still made by the same US supplier as they always have been (yes, they send the tubes to China).


I had thought Estest made all its motors in the US too, but when I pulled recent packs out of my stash, they were all marked "package printed in China" but didn't specify any place of manufacture. I'd be happy to know they are still made in Colorado.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Royatl
If you're willing to boycott Estes, you'd have to be willing to boycott just about everything else that you buy. Everything has some portion made in China. And as someone else said, You're just *now* seeing a problem with the way China operates? China is communist in name only. It is a hodge-podge of authoritarian capitalism *and* socialism. Very little democracy or republicanism.


Absolutely. Read my initial post: "When I have any choice in the matter, I don't believe I can in good conscience buy any products made in China."

Operative words--when I have a choice. I do have choices in model rocketry, or hobbies in general. These are not staples so one option is to buy none at all. Another option is other companies. I recently purchased kits from Rocketarium (Made in Canada) and Boyce Aerospace (Made in USA) and have been satisfied with their quality. I will say several of the Chinese-made Estes kits have been a disappointment. My main complaint being how loose parts fit in the body tubes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanel
it interesting that many people now wish that government to feel pain, because they <probably> withheld information. Did they encourage the spread? They withheld information, but there is zero confirmed intelligence they actively exported the virus. As far as economic damage, that was the choice of the governments of the affected countries - lives over money. If it was a Communist plot, it was a dumb one, because China too has suffered major economic damage.


China knew it was going to suffer damage but decided they weren't going to be the only country to do so, so they pursued actions to ensure the virus was spread to the US and Europe so they would be impacted as well. We already see China trying to take advantage of the situation by attempting to buy overseas companies at reduced prices when they are depressed by the economic downturn, companies in technology areas China wishes to exploit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill S
Could we encourage them to move production/assembly to another Asian country then? That way they would still get to utilize the extremely cheap labor, but deny the Chinese the income? How about Korea, Malaysia, Taiwan? I can certainly justfy a slight price increase if necessary.


This is exactly what I would like to see. A recent example is Apple announced moving at least some production to India. While other nations certainly have their own issues, there are plenty of better options than China.



To a larger point beyond toy rockets, please be very wary of electronic products and software from China. There is plenty of open source reporting on Huawei, for example, and why governments are banning the company from participating in next gen networks. It's only the tip of the iceberg, and what is not open source is even more alarming.

As a personal example, I purchased a computer from a major US company in 2018 and expected it to be a random machine pulled out of a warehouse. It was instead assembled in China and shipped directly to me from the factory. I had it inspected and it was so riddled with sophisticated spyware that even wiping the drive couldn't completely remove it. These people are playing for keeps and we will be sorry if we don't start defending ourselves.
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  #17  
Old 07-08-2020, 07:28 AM
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Rocketflyer Rocketflyer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljefe
(Snip):

Quote: As a personal example, I purchased a computer from a major US company in 2018 and expected it to be a random machine pulled out of a warehouse. It was instead assembled in China and shipped directly to me from the factory. I had it inspected and it was so riddled with sophisticated spyware that even wiping the drive couldn't completely remove it. These people are playing for keeps and we will be sorry if we don't start defending ourselves.


Nothing new there, and very true, especially with a major 'US' company. Lots of your phones are 'riddled' as well. Go 5g, and you go China.
The govt' computer I get 'issued' is scrubbed.
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