Ye Olde Rocket Forum

Go Back   Ye Olde Rocket Forum > The Golden Age of Model Rocketry > Model Rocket History
User Name
Password
Auctions Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts Search Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-15-2023, 03:54 PM
Tramper Al Tramper Al is online now
Intermediate Rocketeer
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 86
Default Estes Engine Holder and the Sky Bird?

In my effort to understand why every model in the 1963 Estes catalog is (in contrast to 1963 Centuri) completely naked and without decals or decoration of any kind, I have been reading that catalog carefully.

There is a blurb on the Estes Engine Holder (a hook with gauze reinforcement) for minimum diameter rockets in the parts pages. I built a hook like that into my 1963 Astron Scout and I suppose it is the precursor for later engine hooks (a la 1965 Alpha).

But the interesting part (for me) is this: "By running forward instead of rearward from the rocket engine, it can also be used as a substitute for the engine block in removable fin rockets such as the Sky Bird." Wait, what? What is a removal fin rocket, and what is a Sky Bird?

Googling leads me to Sky Bird II (Estes eirp 02 link below) which seems to have 1) an engine hook, and 2) something called break-up recovery. I am reading the 1 page plans now and I see a shock cord but no parachute, and have not worked out the removable fins. Clearly I still have much to learn when it comes to early model rocket history.



Sky Bird II (eirp)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-15-2023, 04:01 PM
kevinj kevinj is offline
Not so Junior
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 391
Default

Sky Bird was one of the original plans that used a plastic fin unit from fireworks. Sint they could be slid on and off the tube, that's where the removable fins comment comes from.
See the 1960 catalog here: http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/ca...s60/60est4.html

Fins are listed as the plastic fin unit to build the Sky Bird.
In the list of plans in the Rocketry handbook is the Sky Bird.

kj
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-15-2023, 04:12 PM
Tramper Al Tramper Al is online now
Intermediate Rocketeer
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 86
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinj
Sky Bird was one of the original plans that used a plastic fin unit from fireworks. Sint they could be slid on and off the tube, that's where the removable fins comment comes from.
See the 1960 catalog here: http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/ca...s60/60est4.html

Fins are listed as the plastic fin unit to build the Sky Bird.
In the list of plans in the Rocketry handbook is the Sky Bird.

kj


Thank you! That same page lists a publication called "Model Rocketry" which has plans for the Arrow-C, Sky Bird, and Orange Bullet. Do we have access to these plans? Scanned and uploaded or otherwise? Yes I've heard of the Orange Bullet subsequently.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-15-2023, 05:16 PM
samb samb is offline
spirit of 72
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Plano, TX
Posts: 284
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tramper Al
Thank you! That same page lists a publication called "Model Rocketry" which has plans for the Arrow-C, Sky Bird, and Orange Bullet. Do we have access to these plans? Scanned and uploaded or otherwise? Yes I've heard of the Orange Bullet subsequently.


More gold from ninfinger:

http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/ca...an/esttech.html
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-15-2023, 05:43 PM
Tramper Al Tramper Al is online now
Intermediate Rocketeer
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 86
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by samb


Great, thanks. I've not come across that one before.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-15-2023, 06:38 PM
BEC's Avatar
BEC BEC is online now
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Auburn, Washington
Posts: 3,415
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tramper Al
In my effort to understand why every model in the 1963 Estes catalog is (in contrast to 1963 Centuri) completely naked and without decals or decoration of any kind, I have been reading that catalog carefully.

There is a blurb on the Estes Engine Holder (a hook with gauze reinforcement) for minimum diameter rockets in the parts pages. I built a hook like that into my 1963 Astron Scout and I suppose it is the precursor for later engine hooks (a la 1965 Alpha).



Sky Bird II (eirp)

Yup. EH-1 is the 1/16 wire hook used in the Scout. The flat metal EH-2, originally used in the Sprite in the same fashion as the EH-1 was used in the Scout, was first used in the Alpha for a quick change motor mount without also supporting the aft CG shift for tumble recovery for Scout/Sprite or so I thought until I saw this. I'm not sure how that long hook would be used in this Sky Bird.

But now, thanks to this, I know why the Sky Bird II (which I've built in the original size and an ST-8-based 13mm motor version) is a "II".
__________________
Bernard Cawley
NAR 89040 L1 - Life Member
SAM 0061
AMA 42160
KG7AIE
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-16-2023, 09:53 AM
Tramper Al Tramper Al is online now
Intermediate Rocketeer
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 86
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by samb


Incidentally, how do you Estes history fans date this document? The first 7 (or 8) pages are I believe the "Model Rocketry" handbook available for order from what we call the 1960 Estes catalog (which specifically refers to plans for the 3 models), so I reason the handbook dates back at least that far. Are these the first 3 published Estes plans? The 1960 catalog seems to me to have no kits for sale, but rather a selection of parts, many of which are described for use with these 3 models. So they are effectively offering full plans and complete parts for these 3 kits, but separately.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-16-2023, 11:28 AM
samb samb is offline
spirit of 72
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Plano, TX
Posts: 284
Default

The ninfinger document looks to me to be a compilation of existing material. I don't know where or when those plans originally appeared.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-16-2023, 12:20 PM
Tramper Al Tramper Al is online now
Intermediate Rocketeer
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 86
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by samb
The ninfinger document looks to me to be a compilation of existing material. I don't know where or when those plans originally appeared.


It is definitely that (a compilation that include later model plans and Technical Reports). I reason that the first 7 pages or so - with the correct title, hand typed, with plans for those 3 specific models - is the 160-P-1 handbook sold for 25 via the 1960 catalog.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:32 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ye Olde Rocket Shoppe 1998-2023