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  #1  
Old 07-31-2020, 06:55 AM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Default Pretty Estes Gnome artwork

Hello All,

Last week I received an advertising e-mail message from Estes Industries, having ordered directly from them in the fairly recent past. It contained a pretty illustration (with two views) of their Gnome model rocket in flight, ascending under power and descending under its recovery streamer (I have attached it below). It should be particularly attractive to new--or prospective--model rocketeers. Directly below, I have copied the text from the message:

****************

New Product Gnome


The Estes® Gnome™ Model Rocket


An eye dazzling rocket that comes with a colored body tube and one piece fin unit for quick assembly. With just a few easy steps, and glue drying time, this sleek cloud chaser will be ready to launch in less than hour!



• Super Shiny Chrome Body Tube
• Soars to 800 ft. on a Mini Powered Engine
• Reliable Recovery with Orange Colored Streamer










Grab the Gnome™ Flying Model Rocket Today!



Shop Gnome


Learn More





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Estes Industries, LLC, 1295 H Street, Penrose, Colorado 81240, United States, (719) 372-6565

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Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
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  #2  
Old 07-31-2020, 07:45 AM
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5x7 5x7 is offline
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My hope is that they are doing a parallel color wrap on tubes, which will make the finished product much more attractive and hopefully durable. The MAV has a parallel wrap and it’s very nice.
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  #3  
Old 07-31-2020, 08:32 AM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5x7
My hope is that they are doing a parallel color wrap on tubes, which will make the finished product much more attractive and hopefully durable. The MAV has a parallel wrap and it’s very nice.
I concur--the "stock" Gnome is a bit on the "landing ding-able" side; the body tube eventually buckles at the station where the motor clip passes through (that can easily be prevented by gluing a BT-5 thrust ring or stage coupler inside the body tube, just ahead of the slit in the tube [and by smearing a little white or yellow glue around the slit, on the outside of the body tube]). The Puma--a yellow (with black plastic nose cone and fin unit) RTF version of the Gnome--had a BT-5 thrust ring glued into its body tube just ahead of the motor clip slit, and it was immune to the buckling.
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Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
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  #4  
Old 07-31-2020, 03:33 PM
PaulK PaulK is offline
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That's an awful kit for beginners, though - the tube is just way too small for easy packing. Our club always uses BT-50 something for beginner group builds.
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  #5  
Old 08-03-2020, 07:26 AM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulK
That's an awful kit for beginners, though - the tube is just way too small for easy packing. Our club always uses BT-50 something for beginner group builds.
I don't see why. Aerospace Speciality Products (ASP) has offered BT-5 size beginners' kits--including in bulk quantities--for many years (and like Estes' original Mini-Brute kits, they're all balsa and paper [containing no plastic, except the streamer], requiring finishing & painting, too!). I had mediocre-to-lousy manual dexterity when I was very young (below 10), yet I was able to build and spray-paint a nice-looking Estes Screamer (it was a BT-5 size kit), and pack its shock cord, streamer (which was crepe paper, thicker and stiffer than plastic flagging tape streamers), and nose cone. ASP wouldn't (and couldn't afford to, being such a small company) offer their BT-5 size kits if they bedeviled and frustrated kids, and:

Even in the Estes demo video of the Gnome (in the video series of theirs in which their kits are prepped and flown by local kids; their electronic music came from "Music Shake"), the kid who prepped and flew the Gnome looked very young, yet he had no difficulties with packing its shock cord and streamer, or with prepping and installing its 13 mm motor. He used a pencil or a ballpoint pen to push the folded streamer into the body tube, just enough to accommodate the last few inches of the shock cord and the nose cone shoulder (if memory serves, even the instructions of my BT-5 size, streamer-recovered Estes Screamer Mini-Brute kit suggested using a pen or pencil in that way). Also:

With streamer-recovered model rockets of ^any^ diameter, I've never cared for the "direct-to-the-shock-cord-attachment" of streamers, which is a (relatively) recent innovation (although it can be found here and there in 1970s-vintage kits such as the Centuri Star Trooper, Fireflash, etc.). The older streamer attachment method--which works equally well with crepe paper, vellum (for streamer duration models), metallized Mylar, and Day-Glo orange or yellow plastic flagging tape streamers (the kind used in kits such as the Gnome)--makes streamer packing easier, and it works as follows:

A short length (just a few inches) of stout cotton thread--like carpet thread, or parachute shroud line thread--is affixed to one end of the streamer. The other end of the thread is tied to the nose cone's screw eye (if it's balsa, usually [the Estes Alpha III is a notable exception to this]), or to its base's molded-in anchor lug (if it's an injection-molded or blow-molded plastic nose cone). Another, very good streamer attachment thread is the Kevlar thread that Apogee Rockets carries (they also carry cotton shroud line thread; both are available *here*: https://www.apogeerockets.com/Build...ment/Shock_Cord ), and:

After the streamer is rolled up, or folded up (or some of both), the streamer attachment thread is wrapped around the rolled/folded streamer, after which the streamer "cylinder" is inserted into the front end of the body tube (after the recovery wadding and most of the shock cord have been inserted). If necessary, the rolled/folded streamer is gently pushed a fraction of an inch rearward inside the tube (to make room for the last couple of inches of the shock cord, and the nose cone's shoulder), using a pen or a pencil (or a length of dowel).
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Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR
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  #6  
Old 08-03-2020, 09:12 AM
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You answered your own question. It’s a terrible beginners kit for several reasons, but for me it is because it really needs a tool to pack in the shock cord and the stick or pen method is not even mentioned in the instructions. It can be frustrating for a beginner, and Estes should revisit beginners kits that are frustrating or not durable, like the wizard where the fins smash off in normal landings.
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  #7  
Old 08-07-2020, 04:55 AM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5x7
You answered your own question. It’s a terrible beginners kit for several reasons, but for me it is because it really needs a tool to pack in the shock cord and the stick or pen method is not even mentioned in the instructions. It can be frustrating for a beginner, and Estes should revisit beginners kits that are frustrating or not durable, like the wizard where the fins smash off in normal landings.
So what? I didn't need anyone to tell me that the same pen or pencil that I used to install the igniter in the motor nozzle (this was B.I.P.--"Before Igniter Plugs"--the early red, white, and green Gnome [and the Leprechaun, a Gnome with a--usually--6" long body tube] and Screamer kits came out during that long period) could also be used to tamp the rolled/folded streamer 1/2" - 3/4" or so down inside the body tube. Also, G. Harry Stine's "Handbook of Model Rocketry" (and various Centuri, Estes, and other model rocket manufacturers' literature) suggest having a dowel, pen, or pencil in the field box (for pushing spent friction-fitted motors out of recovered models, among other uses, which include [as they read] pushing streamers or parachutes down a little way inside ST-7/BT-20 and narrower models), and:

I'm afraid that these days, adults have lower expectations of children, and that is sad (and harmful, too--if the bar is set low, kids will reach it and go no higher, unless their parents encourage them to excellence--and relatively few parents do that). Any child of a high enough age to build an Estes Gnome (I'm not talking about toddlers here), provided that he or she isn't developmentally impaired, can fold/roll the streamer and tamp it slightly down into a BT-5 size model, and won't need to be told that. Given a dowel, pen, or pencil (which should be in the field box, for use in multiple odd jobs), he or she will naturally select it for that purpose (and during the field work, before the prepping and launching of the models begins, the group leader can demonstrate [which should be done regardless of which model rocket the group members build]).
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Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR
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  #8  
Old 08-07-2020, 07:02 AM
ASP ASP is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshire
I don't see why. Aerospace Speciality Products (ASP) has offered BT-5 size beginners' kits--including in bulk quantities--for many years (and like Estes' original Mini-Brute kits, they're all balsa and paper [containing no plastic, except the streamer], requiring finishing & painting, too!). I had mediocre-to-lousy manual dexterity when I was very young (below 10), yet I was able to build and spray-paint a nice-looking Estes Screamer (it was a BT-5 size kit), and pack its shock cord, streamer (which was crepe paper, thicker and stiffer than plastic flagging tape streamers), and nose cone. ASP wouldn't (and couldn't afford to, being such a small company) offer their BT-5 size kits if they bedeviled and frustrated kids, .


Actually our 13mm beginner/bulk pack kits have a BT20 size body tube. The 18mm kits have BT50 size body tubes and are by far more popular (and what I recommend for younger builders).

We do have some minimum diameter 13mm scale kits, but they aren't really aimed at the school/educational/bulk pack market.
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  #9  
Old 08-07-2020, 07:47 AM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASP
Actually our 13mm beginner/bulk pack kits have a BT20 size body tube. The 18mm kits have BT50 size body tubes and are by far more popular (and what I recommend for younger builders).

We do have some minimum diameter 13mm scale kits, but they aren't really aimed at the school/educational/bulk pack market.
Ah--this one (the Theta 13: https://www.asp-rocketry.com/ecomme...nt=11&navPanel= ) is the one I saw. For cost reasons (I've helped a teacher here who operates on a very limited budget), I've suggested various BT-5 size kits (the Gnome, UP Aerospace SpaceLoft, and others). Her pupils (Elementary and Middle School age) have built and flown these, with no problems. Also, they turn in spectacular flights even on lower-impulse 13 mm motors. Also:

Slightly larger diameter (15 mm O.D.--I sent her a batch of MPC Taurus-1 Miniroc clone kits) can accommodate 9.5" wide (measured between opposite sides of the hexagonal canopy) parachutes (they are what come in several of the MPC Miniroc kits, including the Taurus-1: https://plans.rocketshoppe.com/mpc.htm ; others use streamers). I included streamers in the Taurus-1 clone kits, because I didn't have enough polyethylene sheet plastic to make 9.5" parachutes for them, and:

Given that, the Estes 6" hexagonal 'chutes should fit in BT-5 size rockets. (If not, metallized Mylar or Kapton plastic film parachutes, like yours, would fit well in BT-5 size rockets.)
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Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR
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  #10  
Old 08-07-2020, 08:10 AM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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The Estes Gnome (which uses an 8" body tube) and the Leprechaun (which originally used a 6" body tube--it was later changed to 8" [both kits can be seen *here* http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/no...a/88est014.html ]) first appeared in the 1988 Estes Catalog. The Gnome's Recommended Engines are the 1/2A3-2T (First Flight), A3-4T, and A10-3T. The Leprechaun's Recommended Engines list specified the 1/2A3-4T (First Flight) and A3-4T. (Another kit using the Gnome/Leprechaun plastic parts, and a 9" BT-5 body tube, called the Sprite [its Recommended Engines were the 1/2A3-4T and A3-4T], also first appeared in the 1988 catalog: http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/no...a/88est020.html ). This was before the Igniter Plugs (or is that Starter Plugs, now? :-) ) appeared: http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/no...a/88est060.html . The 1988 catalog (and others of that time period) also featured other BT-5 size kits.
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Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR
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