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  #41  
Old 01-10-2020, 09:56 AM
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tbzep tbzep is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash
She has to fly, it’s not called a flying model Rocket for nothing. Lol

Guess I will know when it gets here and yes I’m keeping her and do the repairs to get her complete.

It was worth a shot to mention it.
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  #42  
Old 01-11-2020, 08:25 AM
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Royatl Royatl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash
Ok fellow rocketeers, not sure if I made a good ebay purchase or not? I should have looked at all the pictures because the later pictures show some real problems. Guess I will know more when I get the bird. It's the Centuri 1/45 Little Joe II for $62.00.

I might be able to just do away with the upper wrap if I can remove it without damaging the tube? Any ideas? I would then replace it with one of Accua8 wraps which I have two of.

I might have to gut the motor mount assembly to?

So please feel free and let me know how bad of a deal I made. Lol


The crinkle in the upper wrap is, unfortunately, normal and enhances with age. (i'm posting this now and will edit it as I look at the other photos).

As for the rest I'll be lazy and concur with Earl's assessment

I'd recommend against peeling and replacement.

it looks like you do have some plastic parts missing (one set of escape nozzles and maybe all the RCS clusters. You might could pinch them from an Estes kit, or make resin copies if you want a nice little project.
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  #43  
Old 01-14-2020, 08:47 AM
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Ok, got the Little Joe II kit in the mail yesterday. The whole motor mount is glued in as shown in the above photos in my earlier post. I will have to carefully remove it with out damage to main air frame. And you know it, a lot of glue was used like someone was buiding six of these, Lol.

The wraps was put on by the same person, the kit must date back before factory install. The bottom wrap is ok, but the top one is way out of alignment and covering the bottom wrap at it's top, it will take a lot more care to fix. I'm going to try hair dryer and see if it will release and if not, I'll careful cut the over hang and work on getting it flat and putting a Accur8 wrap over it.

I most likely will have to cut the old centering rings 1/4 or so away from the main body tube and use a small rotary tool to sand them down near the main airframe. I will make new center rings and use a section of BT-60 and BT-20 for the replacement mount with three motor thrust rings and motor hooks etc.

I do have a question? The KS-8 plans in fig # 9 shows a three engine end ring that blocks part of the engine's ejection discharge openings, is there any real purpose in this? In other words, should I be concerned with doing the same?

Any over all recommendations would be appreciated
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  #44  
Old 01-14-2020, 10:18 AM
jetlag jetlag is offline
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If the hair dryer doesn't get hot enough, gently use a heat gun.
That's how I would do it. Just be judicious, heating a little at a time.

Allen
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  #45  
Old 01-14-2020, 11:38 AM
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If you can raise an edge and drip in the proper solvent at the wrap/tube interface you may be able to peel it off without any damage and then use spray adhesive to put it back on. GH may be able to recommend a selection of solvents to try.


Joe
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  #46  
Old 01-14-2020, 12:05 PM
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ghrocketman ghrocketman is offline
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I would try Acetone first to release the adhesive, with MEK as a second choice to release the adhesive. Test first on a small area to make sure it does not dissolve the wrap in addition to the adhesive.
If neither of those work I would try Methylene Chloride.
That is the active ingredient in Plastruct Bondene cement and in Tenax 7R cement.
Methylene Chloride will dissolve almost anything and would only try as a last resort.
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  #47  
Old 01-14-2020, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash
Ok, got the Little Joe II kit in the mail yesterday. The whole motor mount is glued in as shown in the above photos in my earlier post. I will have to carefully remove it with out damage to main air frame. And you know it, a lot of glue was used like someone was buiding six of these, Lol.

The wraps was put on by the same person, the kit must date back before factory install. The bottom wrap is ok, but the top one is way out of alignment and covering the bottom wrap at it's top, it will take a lot more care to fix. I'm going to try hair dryer and see if it will release and if not, I'll careful cut the over hang and work on getting it flat and putting a Accur8 wrap over it.

I most likely will have to cut the old centering rings 1/4 or so away from the main body tube and use a small rotary tool to sand them down near the main airframe. I will make new center rings and use a section of BT-60 and BT-20 for the replacement mount with three motor thrust rings and motor hooks etc.

I do have a question? The KS-8 plans in fig # 9 shows a three engine end ring that blocks part of the engine's ejection discharge openings, is there any real purpose in this? In other words, should I be concerned with doing the same?

Any over all recommendations would be appreciated


As far as I know, ALL the Little Joe II wraps were always installed at the factory. There was never a batch or early period where the buider applied the wraps. The 1/100 kit yes, but never with the 1/45.

On the motor mount, the main stuffer tube with rings SHOULD be glued in. Unless it was glued in at the wrong depth, NO NEED to remove it. On the other hand, the cluster of 18mm motor tubes SHOULD be REMOVABLE. If they are glued in, then THEY should be removed, but that is much less work than having to cut out the big stuffer tube and rings.

And that ring at the top of the three 18mm cluster of tubes is a gas seal; yes you WILL want to re-do a similar one of those for sure! That keeps the ejection charge gases from leaking out backwards from around the three 18mm cluster tubes.

Good luck with the work!

Earl
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  #48  
Old 01-14-2020, 02:34 PM
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tbzep tbzep is offline
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Edit: I had this post about half typed since about 7:15 this morning and finally finished it without checking. It seems that you already have the idea of technique #2 planned! I agree that I've never heard of the kit ever being sold without the wraps already in place. Someone that was around at Centuri or that bought a kit when it first came out might be able to solve the riddle.

It might be easier to cut the whole motor mount out and use two new centering rings, stuffer tube, etc. There are a couple of ways that I've used over the years to repair CATOs. Technique #1 is much easier, almost effortless, if the CR's don't have to be in an exact spot.

1. If there isn't too much of a glue fillet in the main body tube, you can cut away all but an 1/8" to a 1/4" or so of centering ring material and nestle the new CR's against them. if you want the motors to be exactly where they were designed, adjust the depth of your stuffer tube when you glue it in. Even if there is a big fillet on the upper CR, you can still use this method because it doesn't have to be in an exact location. Heck, it could be set to just about any depth. The remnants of the old upper ring will still add rigidity if you have the new upper CR an inch or two aft of the original.

2. I don't know if the aft CR has to be at an exact location for the display nozzles. If it does, cut as much of the centering ring out as you can and then sand the rest off the BT to prepare for the new CR. You can use a Dremel if you are good at removing small amounts of material, but you might want to do the last little bit by hand. If the original builder used poor quality glue that didn't penetrate the paper, it might be possible to peel the glue away from the BT. I wouldn't peel the inside of the BT unless you are confident that you can remove only the thinnest of layering all the way around. It will make the new CR loose (unless you cut your own) and you will be tempted to fill the gap with glue, making it heavier and shrinking the BT with certain white and yellow glues. Once the BT is cleaned off, it will allow you to place the aft CR exactly where it was designed.

If you are an experienced rocket repair man, I apologize. Maybe it will help someone else in the future.
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  #49  
Old 01-14-2020, 04:13 PM
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I'm a Hubble experienced Rocket repairman that is for sure, Lol. Thank you! I would hate to think that Centuri could do no better than this on those wraps. I thought that I got one of these kits when I was a kid when it first came out and I had to put the wraps on? Maybe not, only 10 at the time

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  #50  
Old 01-14-2020, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash
I'm a Hubble experienced Rocket repairman that is for sure, Lol. Thank you! I would hate to think that Centuri could do no better than this on those wraps. I thought that I got one of these kits when I was a kid when it first came out and I had to put the wraps on? Maybe not, only 10 at the time

See pics

I did notice your Level 2 cert, but over the years I've seen many folks manage to hack together some terribly built rockets and eventually certify. They were usually the same guys that used to build Estes rockets with hot glue. I don't put you or anyone that hangs around on YORF into that category by any means...but TRF, yeah.

I can't remember what I type here myself, much less the rest of our YORF membership, so I don't remember who has done which build/repair threads. Again, I apologize, but hopefully it will catch someone's eye someday that has been lucky enough never to have needed to do repair work. I'm glad you were able to snag it and I hope the repairs go well.
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