I am starting a poll on this issue because we ALL have this happen to us. We go on-line and order model rocket motors or buy them off ebay.

So what should we do when the motors arrive at our doorsteps without ANY HAZMAT shipping labels or warnings?

On a personal note, I have shipped motors to people on this board and they were polite enough to tell me not to do that anymore and they didn't turn me into law enforcement; I don't ship propellant of ANY type ANY more! Thank you to those who didn't squeal!

Someday, somebody is going to be made an example of, and it's not going to be pretty. One option you left out was to contact the manufacturer(s) and let them deal with it as they see fit.

Terry Dean

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"Old Rocketeer's don't die; they just go OOP".....unless you 3D print them.

It's already happened at least once. Does the moniker Big Fine ring a bell?

Seriously, as I recall, there was something like a $40k fine. That's a college education right there. I have two in college right now. NFW could I afford something like that without seriously impacting my family's well being.

Also, as I was told, Valueland (out of Georgia) went out of biz over shipping hazmat. And, for that matter, cannot the crash of Valujet flight 592 be attributed to shipping hazmat improperly?

Doug

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YORF member #11

Purchasers are NOT shipment cops no matter what some of the loud minority on this forum may tell you.
Duty toward proper shipment lies 100% upon the shipper of goods.
The purchaser has no control over that; if the seller decides to ship via mountain yak, etc.

I keep my trap shut, and quite frankly don't want to know how they are getting me the goods as long as it is in a timely fashion at a reasonable price.

The LAST thing I would EVER ask for would be for them to tack on some sort of scamulation haz-mutt fee.

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When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!!

Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't !
Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY.
ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, and HAVOC !

Doug,

I didn't know that about Valueland ... what a shame

I just saw about a dozen or more rocket motor auctions close on ebay in the last couple of weeks and well what do you do?

We had one seller setup but there was more to it than just rocket motor shipping...

The current poll results are very telling about our hobby and its participants as a whole.

J

This is what I was saying in the other thread when the topic came up (relating to Fleabay sellers shipping motors "illegally").

If we as the "rocketry community" cannot police ourselves, it WILL be done for us, by overeager regulators, and most assuredly in a manner not to our liking...

IMHO, at the very least, one should contact the seller and make them aware of the relevant regulations governing the proper (and safe) shipment of rocket motors/propellants and such.

This is simply a good idea showing good faith and an attempt to do things the right way in accordance with the laws and regulations.

Do things "still happen" that shouldn't?? SURE THEY DO! But that doesn't mean that one shouldn't try to do it the RIGHT way and attempt to educate and minimize the incorrect occurrences as much as humanly possible when the opportunity arises...

"It's just good business"...

Later! OL JR

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The X-87B Cruise Basselope-- THE Ultimate Weapon in the arsenal of Homeland Security and only $52 million per round!

GH,

Yes, and I agree, but what responsibility to the hobby as a whole do we have?

Its easy to say its up to the shipper to do the right thing, but if it can impact us all as a whole, then what?

lets say Gary of Aerotech starts shipping without HAZMAT to reduce his costs. Then the Feds find out and Gary can't ship anything to anyone. We all are impacted.

We or some of us remember the 'Flaming Aerotech Pallet of Death' that was video taped and then sent over to DoT in an attempt to heavily regulate and ban Aerotech shipping (Folks there was a time when Mid/High Power manufactures were at WAR with traditional BP motor makers...). All it takes is one major event and our hobby can be brought to a halt!

There is so much regulation and laws that strip of us rights in the name of public safety. California just BANNED, yes BANNED the throwing of a frisbe or football on California beaches ... give me a friggin break!

EDIT: I know what I just typed above sounds like I am just making it up... so here is the link; you throw a football on LA Beaches, you pay a $1000.00 fine, isn't the State a wonderful thing? [sic] ... reminds of the Burges Meredith Twilight Zone episode where the State finds his character obsolete and sentences him to death...

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2012...bee-on-beaches/

Once upon a time in America, I could order gunpowder, ammunition and machine guns in the mail ... not anymore Oh, and Coca-Cola had COCAINE in it!

J

P.s. The DHS does have the power to tell ebay to stop offering model rocket auctions period in an attempt to prevent the shipping of rocket motors.

I just don't wish to be the person who would be known as the guy who screwed up things for the hobby; just saying.

Yes but, 'Big fine' was setup for reasons OTHER than just shipping his motors to Texas ... there was a greater retaliation motive behind that one...

J

Jonathon,

What's the back story? It sounds like you know a lot more about it than I do. Fill us in.

Doug

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YORF member #11