I think you may mean the crappy NCR stuff.

Firstly, you are more than welcome. I live for this sort of stuff just like you do. Also I was wondering about the possibility of making an actual true clone of a 2650 with USR parts since they are the only ones that would work right. BMS could readily make a proper scale nose cone albeit at the limit of their size capability.

A 2250 would require a custom run of thinner 29mm motor tubing to make practical the crush fit thing.

A 1340 would be problematic since Estes seems to no longer resell parts in bulk for kitters and the fin unit they have is mandatory. The mold no longer exists for the original Enerjet 1340 nose cone and payload section. I checked. It resulted in Barry Tunik getting yet another tax deduction however, so we have that to look back on. With fin units in hand I could make a proper Enerjet 1340 clone as well as its variants since they did manage to either salvage or duplicate the Egg Crate payload section.

It would be a bit like cloning dinosaurs in Jurassic Park, however. I saw a recent interview with a dinosaur era DNA expert and she stated there was "zero chance" any valid DNA survived the various heat cycles Earth had endured.

We at least do not suck that much!

Just Jerry

Kitter parts Estes should offer (to me at least). Yes I know the minimum order is $5k. I can advance pay and wait 2 years and pay additional installments as deliveries commence.

500 1340 fin unit (red)
100 Egg Crate payload sections (black, white okay)
Athena nose cones (white, PNC-7 and PNC-20, PR-20-16)
500 PNC-20
4000 PNC-7
500 PR-20-16
1000 Mean Machine nose cone (white okay)
1000 4" plastic nose cone. (white okay)

Last time I talked to him he wasn't making propellant any more, but was still doing some custom hardware. After the BATFE crackdown, Pepcon, etc. it became troublesome to get and store AP and APCP. For a while he was only able to buy Chinese AP by the drum. About the time I stopped flying EX and HPR.

__________________
I love sanding.

Welcome to my world.

Amateur rocketry has spent most of its years in an era of the use of a propellant called Micrograin which is a combination of powdered Zinc and powdered sulfur. Zinc-sulfur. This roughly includes 1943 to present. Black powder and sugar motors did not gain popularity due to the problems with scaling them up. The major operators of Zinc-Sulfur rockets were Reaction Research Society and Pacific Rocket Society who started about the same time and both operated out of a joint launch area Called Mojave Test Area near Garlock and Cantil, California. They were closely affiliated with California Institute of Technology and thus JPL. There was also a close relationship with China Lake Naval Weapons Station in Ridgecrest, CA. Prior to operating out of the MTA, these clubs operated at Rosamond Dry Lake, just outside of what is now Edwards Air Force Base (Formerly Muroc AFB, homesteaders name Corum in reverse). In about 1953 the RRS and PRS clubs moved their rocket activities to the MTA.

Two of the members were named Mike Smalley (RIP) and Dave Griffith. Avid rocketeers and occasional Zinc-sulfur rocket fliers, they decided to do a very high performance rocket using Zinc-Sulfur. The typical zinc-sulfur rocket of the time is a rocket called Beta which is a 2 inch diameter steel rocket with welded steel fins which was all motor. It is typically launched at a 10 degree angle for site safety and flown to ballistic impact, timed, and the combination of flight time and impact distance are used to calculate the rocket performance. A dead simple method used for decades by the RRS and PRS over hundreds, perhaps thousands of zinc-sulfur flights, mostly with Betas.

Mike Smalley and Dave Griffith, who we know as the guy who invented the Tribrid, made a much larger all steel rocket out of an expended HVAR (High Velocity Aircraft Rocket) case. This is a 5 inch diameter case about 4 feet long. There were versions with several nozzles like a modern Medusa nozzle and some with a single throat nozzle. The single throat version was used. It was a scaled up Beta in terms of motor design for ballistics. That was the booster stage and an upper stage was constructed using a traditional Beta. A payload section was fabricated which contained then exceptionally modern hand breadboarded electronics.

The booster was loaded with Zinc and sulfur with a three man (kid) team. Mike Smalley, Dave Griffith and Jerry Irvine. Close friends. Nobody was killed in the process. The rocket is lowered into a wide pit and loaded through the nozzle. Once loaded it is extremely heavy and must be raised by mechanically assisted means.

Both motors functioned nominally and no photos seem to have survived of the flight day.

Captions.

The assembled rocket was submitted as scale data for the CRS Open contest, the same one the Enerjet 2650 was submitted for.

The upper stage of the 2 stage rocket had a Beta motor similar to this red Beta standalone rocket held by Vince Palmire for scale. It is a heavy steel rocket. The zinc-sulfur propellant is fully combusted before the rocket leaves the pad and squirts out of the motor during the first 200 feet or so of flight like a water rocket, albeit with a large orange flame, very heavy smoke and about double the density. It is an end-burning powder rocket with 100% solids loading. A burst diaphragm is used in the nozzle to promote full combustion of all the contents. The ISP is around 60-80.

The booster stage is huge and has a very large nozzle throat. A Zn-S rocket is a nearly pure mass flow device. Some combustion is at work, but mainly to change state from solid to liquid. If more gas were produced the ISP would be higher.

Historical Jerry
Circa 1970.

cite:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_...Aircraft_Rocket

Attached Thumbnails

       

More photos.

The first two images are the assembled steel zinc-sulfur rocket with Vince Palmire in the image for scale. The last image is Mike Smalley with his own creation. While there was a photo of Mike Smalley in the California Rocketry magazine Crash and Burn issue, very few photos of this active rocketeer have survived. He was the leader of the Hacienda Heights model rocket club, an NAR chapter, later opened a full line hobby store, where he was killed by an electrical accident. He was an active member of both RRS and PRS and was active in NAR competition, higher power model rocketry especially using Mini-Max and Enerjet motors, and was killed before the MPR and HPR era was installed, after being started by California Rocketry magazine in April 1981. Jerry Irvine was the publisher and editor of CRm.

Mike was a good friend.

Historical Jerry
Circa 1970

cite:
http://v-serv.com/crp/CRm/4-83/CRm.4-83.htm
Page 5

Attached Thumbnails

     

Fascinating. My first job out of college was at China Lake, in 1975. It sounds like maybe the activities you refer to were before this time, but I was only there 2 years, consumed with work, and unaware of any amateur rocketry activities.

I did have fun during my short stay there, working on Sidewinder and Shrike. Unfortunately the job morphed into a bureaucratic government job overseeing contractor work, and I bailed.

I do have a modest rocket I built while at China Lake -- an Estes Saros. The oldest rocket in my fleet, by a long shot. I just replaced the shock cord and plan to fly it with my grandkids at our next launch. Then it probably gets retired.

__________________
Lee Reep
NAR 55948

Projects: Semroc Saturn 1B, Ken Foss Designs Mini Satellite Interceptor
In the Paint Shop: Nothing! Too cold!
Launch-Ready: Farside-X, Maxi Honest John, Super Scamp

PRS and RRS started in 1943, I was born in 1958, which is about when Estes started as well. Vince in the images is 1-2 years younger than me, Mike about 2 years older and Gary, Dave and Dave and Eric about my same age. The G motor LCO is about 3 years younger than me.

Jerry

The current state of amateur rocketry at MTA and FAR includes hydrogen peroxide monopropellant motors, solid fuel hybrids with three different oxidizers, LOX-Kero liquids, scaled up sucrose motors as high as 4" diameter now, APCP motors up to 60" diameter, and a wide variety of experimental propellant combinations and form factor experiments.

There are even amateur self-recovering rockets, stable platform hovering liquid rockets, target a point in space rockets, and various location methods from GPS to radio, to cellular triangulation.

It's come a long way, baby!

Jerry,

This is great stuff your'e posting! Thanks.

I also enjoy looking at the scanned copies of California Rocketry you've posted on your website, and look forward to seeing the missing issues once you find time to scan them

Take care,

__________________
Jeffrey Deem
NAR16741
CIA section 527

Views reached 909 today which is the area code for Claremont.

Update. Over 1000 8-18-15.
Update. Over 1200 8-19-15.
Update. Over 1400 8-20-15.
Update. Over 1800 8-28-15.