Ye Olde Rocket Forum

Go Back   Ye Olde Rocket Forum > Work Bench > Vendors
User Name
Password
Auctions Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts Search Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #11  
Old 10-30-2011, 12:44 AM
Bill's Avatar
Bill Bill is offline
I do not like Facebook
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: North Tejas
Posts: 2,474
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpoehlein
Very exciting news! And completely out of the blue as well. I really like that fact that it has a booster version as well - That will make it fun and really useful. For those who are more up on the regs than I am, do three of these remain legal to fly without level one cert, or is there enough propellant that three of them push over the threshold? If they are under the line, these babies will really rock in my 3x24mm Tube Daddy!



The E12 has very close to the same propellant mass as the E9, so three of them is still Level 0.


Bill
__________________
It is well past time to Drill, Baby, Drill!

If your June, July, August and September was like this, you might just hate summer too...

Please unload your question before you ask it unless you have a concealed harry permit.

: countdown begin cr dup . 1- ?dup 0= until cr ." Launch!" cr ;

Give a man a rocket and he will fly for a day; teach him to build and he will spend the rest of his days sanding...
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-30-2011, 12:45 AM
Bill's Avatar
Bill Bill is offline
I do not like Facebook
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: North Tejas
Posts: 2,474
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gus
Most interesting thing is that the increased peak thrust actually allows for an E booster motor.

Although E9-0s were listed in some places I don't believe they were ever produced (just E9-Ps).

So E12-0 to E9-8 ought to make for some interesting flights.

Think we'll see an Estes EE-Express?



Maybe the EE-Excess?


Bill
__________________
It is well past time to Drill, Baby, Drill!

If your June, July, August and September was like this, you might just hate summer too...

Please unload your question before you ask it unless you have a concealed harry permit.

: countdown begin cr dup . 1- ?dup 0= until cr ." Launch!" cr ;

Give a man a rocket and he will fly for a day; teach him to build and he will spend the rest of his days sanding...
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-30-2011, 01:15 AM
bernomatic's Avatar
bernomatic bernomatic is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 1,114
Default

Now I know why I've been procrastinating on my Renegade -D build. I've been putting it off and putting it off saying next week I'll get started. Now I won't have to gut her to retrofit for these as a booster engine.
__________________
Bernard J. Herman Ohio RLS

Starport Sagitta Rockets
email bherman@sagittarockets.com

NAR # 97971 SR

Is Trump doing a good job? Feel free to let us know your opinion at Sagitta Cantina

We're looking for a few good Catos, please tell us about any you may have had. Survey of Anecdotal Malfunctioning Engines or S.A.M.E.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-30-2011, 08:41 AM
Jerry Irvine's Avatar
Jerry Irvine Jerry Irvine is offline
Freeform rocketry advocate.
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Claremont, CA "The intellectual capitol of the world."-WSJ
Posts: 3,656
Default

This is a welcome release. The thrust is a bit higher but overall this is still a "soft" motor. The three cluster propellant mass is 107.7g which is well under either the older 113g limit or the newer 125g limit. Its 35.9g propellant mass is over the mailability limit. I would like to see Estes and NAR petitition the USPS to increase the mailability limit to 125g based on decades of hassle free mailing including times when they did allow such mailings. It would bring the USPS in line with FAA, another federal entity. Treaty changes to allow mailing to/from the USA and G20 countries would be helpful as well.

I look forward to a high thrust D with the new Estes igniters.

I urge users to give Estes feedback on reliability under different storage and launch site environments as soon as possible. You might recall, if you are old like me, the Mighty D started life as a D13 and was downrated to a D12 after field failures. The E9 started life as an E15 and was similarly downrated. This E12 seems like a middle ground compromise between these two designs.

Jerry
__________________
Exemptions not regulations. Please support DOT treating slow burning solids as not subject to HMR. 2015 NAR President declines!
U.S. Rockets instaship. http://bit.ly/1aca7mA Please buy some rockets.
The O administration believed in tax, spend, borrow, fine, mandate, monologue. D voters will soon be very happy with the election outcome!
Model rocketry is as safe as safe can be defined in human existence. Bow and pray: GH Stine, Orville, Vern, Lee, Lonnie, Carl, etc. No, really.

Last edited by Jerry Irvine : 10-30-2011 at 09:43 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-30-2011, 11:04 AM
Jerry Irvine's Avatar
Jerry Irvine Jerry Irvine is offline
Freeform rocketry advocate.
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Claremont, CA "The intellectual capitol of the world."-WSJ
Posts: 3,656
Default Motor Data Estes E12 24mm

Estes E12
Pmass 35.9g
Imass 59.9g
0.93" x 3.75"

JEND
s-N-lb
0-2-0.449
0.1-10-2.248
0.25-32-7.194
0.28-33-7.419
0.35-15-3.372
0.45-13-2.923
0.9-10-2.248
2.37-10-2.248
2.43-0-0

TOTAL IMPULSE POUND-SECONDS = 6.290105
TOTAL IMPULSE NEWTON-SECONDS = 27.978387
AVERAGE THRUST NEWTONS = 11.51374
AVERAGE THRUST POUNDS = 2.588521
SPECIFIC IMPULSE (LB-SEC/LB) = 79.370963

Attached are some Malewicki charts (pdf) for the motor in common rocket sizes and weights.

Jerry
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Estes E12.jend.pdf (32.7 KB, 111 views)
__________________
Exemptions not regulations. Please support DOT treating slow burning solids as not subject to HMR. 2015 NAR President declines!
U.S. Rockets instaship. http://bit.ly/1aca7mA Please buy some rockets.
The O administration believed in tax, spend, borrow, fine, mandate, monologue. D voters will soon be very happy with the election outcome!
Model rocketry is as safe as safe can be defined in human existence. Bow and pray: GH Stine, Orville, Vern, Lee, Lonnie, Carl, etc. No, really.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-30-2011, 12:17 PM
Green Dragon Green Dragon is offline
AL Swackhammer , power freak
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New York
Posts: 1,204
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpoehlein
Very exciting news! And completely out of the blue as well. I really like that fact that it has a booster version as well - That will make it fun and really useful. For those who are more up on the regs than I am, do three of these remain legal to fly without level one cert, or is there enough propellant that three of them push over the threshold? If they are under the line, these babies will really rock in my 3x24mm Tube Daddy!

Greg


You need no Level anything cert to cluster E motors.

Level 1 cert in only required for flying H-I motors. ( or up to cluster of 1280 N-sec ).

three 30Nsec E's is 90 Nsec and no certification is required..

unsure on the waiver issues, however, is the new no-notification 'large model rocket' propellant weight limit 125 grams or 113 ?

~ AL

fly em high
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-30-2011, 12:24 PM
CPMcGraw's Avatar
CPMcGraw CPMcGraw is offline
BARCLONE Rocketry
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Mobile, Alabama
Posts: 5,355
Default

Has anyone tried to create an engine file for RockSim yet for this new motor?

ADDENDUM: Someone try this one out and see if I came close enough...
Attached Files
File Type: zip Estes-E12.rse.zip (5.5 KB, 124 views)
__________________
Craig McGraw

BARCLONE Rocketry -- http://barclone.rocketshoppe.com
BARCLONE Blogsite -- http://barclone.wordpress.com
BARCLONE Forum -- BARCLONE Forum

BARs helping BARs

SAM 0044
AMA 352635

Last edited by CPMcGraw : 10-30-2011 at 12:55 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-30-2011, 01:18 PM
CPMcGraw's Avatar
CPMcGraw CPMcGraw is offline
BARCLONE Rocketry
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Mobile, Alabama
Posts: 5,355
Default

First simulation, using the Interceptor-E file, shows the following:

Altitude -- 490'
Deployment V -- 4 FPS
Rod length -- 60" (took 56") This is the killer

Using the new graph, as Jerry indicated, the engine is "soft". It appears great, once the model is airborne, but getting off the ground it doesn't have a lot of "oomph" when used in a design that weighs in over 13 oz loaded.


I also tried it out in the SEMROC SLS Laser-X...

Altitude -- 554'
Deployment V -- 4 FPS
Rod length -- 60" (took 49")

This is a 12.5 oz design loaded, and shows great flight numbers, but lousy take-off numbers.


Another test, this time the DynaStar FireFox-SHX...

Altitude -- 643'
Deployment V -- 15 FPS
Rod Length -- 60" (took 47")

This is the lightest of the three, at 11.32 oz loaded. Still weak on the take-off...


Haven't simulated a Cherokee-D yet, but I expect better lift-off numbers. This engine should not be viewed as a serious BOOST engine for heavier designs; rather as a higher-performance "D" for light designs (3FNC and 4FNC variety).
__________________
Craig McGraw

BARCLONE Rocketry -- http://barclone.rocketshoppe.com
BARCLONE Blogsite -- http://barclone.wordpress.com
BARCLONE Forum -- BARCLONE Forum

BARs helping BARs

SAM 0044
AMA 352635
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-30-2011, 01:28 PM
tbzep's Avatar
tbzep tbzep is offline
Dazed and Confused
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: TN
Posts: 9,192
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CPMcGraw
First simulation, using the Interceptor-E file, shows the following:

Altitude -- 490'
Deployment V -- 4 FPS
Rod length -- 60" (took 56") This is the killer


Kody and I flew our Interceptor-E on a D12-3 from a Mantis pad. The launch rod is 57" long and about a foot of that is completely wasted by the the blast deflector and the way the rod mounts in the pad. Bottom line is that a 4 foot rod is long enough with both the D12 and E12 as long as you fly on a calm day. I wouldn't attempt it in a breeze, even with 60" of usable rod. There's just too much fin/wing area to mess with the flight.
__________________
I love sanding.

Last edited by tbzep : 10-30-2011 at 09:36 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-30-2011, 01:30 PM
tbzep's Avatar
tbzep tbzep is offline
Dazed and Confused
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: TN
Posts: 9,192
Default

Everybody but me gripes about low altitudes of the Saturn V on a D12-3. That's the E12 simulation you need to report.
__________________
I love sanding.

Last edited by tbzep : 10-30-2011 at 09:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:42 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ye Olde Rocket Shoppe 1998-2019