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  #11  
Old 03-17-2012, 06:50 PM
Initiator001 Initiator001 is offline
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Okay, I have opened the Ventris kit and looked over the parts and instructions. A picture of the parts is attached.

Here are my thoughts on the model so far.

The Good

Heavier/thicker walled body tubes

Nicely made slots in the lower body tube for the fin tabs-just big enough for the fin tabs to fit through

Nose cone and tube adapter made out of polystyrene-firm/doesn't flex like other poly-plastics used for nose cones, paint will adhere better

Three centering rings for the motor mount tube

Nicely laser-cut plywood fins-very firm and tough (I had a heck of a time trying to round the leading edge with a sanding block)

1/2" wide flat elastic shock cord

Screw-on motor retainer

The Bad

Instructions-I understand the desire make the instructions tri-lingual but some steps lack enough verbage to be clear, the motor mount assembly for one

Paper tri-fold shock cord anchor-This has to be the largest copy of the classic Estes paper folded shock cord mount I have ever seen in a kit. I was expecting a more 'robust' method of attaching the shock cord to the main body tube

The 2.0"/2.5" plastic tube adapter shoulder is undersized on the 2.0" side. The fit is very loose. The shoulder will need to be built up

The Ugly

No decals

Well, not exacly. A small 'Estes Pro Series II' decal is included but those black roll patterns are not included in the kit.

Now, I wouldn't normally make a big deal of it as I could mask and paint or buy trim Monokote to replicate the pattern but there was a notice in the finishing section of the instructions about the roll pattern decals:

"Optional decal scheme purchase separately at estesrockets.com"

What?!

If I want the decals I have to pay extra?!!

I couldn't believe it.

I did go to the Estes webpage to try and find the decals but no luck.

I called Estes but when you press the button/number for customer service a message tells you to go to the Estes webpage and 'click' on the 'contact us' button (Send an e-mail).

I did as instructed and I have yet to receive a reply about the decals.



I was looking very forward to Estes taking another shot at the mid-power rocketry market as I think it has alot of growth potential but this latest offering leaves me a little bit underwhelmed.

I still plan to purchase more of the Pro Series II line (I am looking forward to the Nike Smoke) but with the realization that there may be more effort and cost (decals) involved.

As of now, I have sanded the fins and sealed them with FnF (They will probably only need one coat). I have sealed the ends of all the body tubes with CA and applied a coat of FnF over each tube. I plan to install an AeroTech-like mesh baffle (BTW the motor tube is 8" long) and wrap some kevlar line around the motor mount tube to anchor the shock cord.

This is Estes thrid go-around with mid-power rocketry. If I were to compare it with the original Pro Series products and the North Coast Rocketry By Estes (NCRBE) product line I would rate the Pro Series II kits an improvement over the original Pro Series kits but not as good as the NCRBE kits.

YMMV.

I look forward to what others will have to say about building/flying these models.
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  #12  
Old 03-17-2012, 09:37 PM
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ghrocketman ghrocketman is offline
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I consider the NORMAL discounted price for E30's the same as it was 3 months ago and what it still is for the E15; $21.99 for 3 !

At that price point it makes sense to fly SU. Otherwise I will stick to E28 reloads.

Quite frankly, I highly doubt Aerotech is selling them below cost at the Valuerockets site and wish they would do that (sell direct only) for ALL the mailable without hazmat SU motors and reloads and cut the ridiculous hobby disribution and hobby shop markup out entirely.
This would be no different than the current R/C market with mega sales going to Tower Hobbies etc. due to the ridiculous prices typical "ma and pa" hobby shop wants to charge. VERY FEW highly active R/C fliers make ANY major purchases at hobby shops due to absolute ripoff prices.
Up until 8 years ago we had a hobby shop in the area that charged all card-bearing R/C club members 10% over Tower prices for ANYTHING we purchased/ordered through him (including boats, cars, plastic models, AND rockets, not just planes/helis) and he carried used engines and R/C sets at great prices to boot. He got all the business he could handle and managed to make a profit. He was a retired B-52 pilot and enjoyed trading bench flying stories with me and all the other club members. He treated us VERY well and we referred EVERYONE to him. He would not even let us pay hazmat fees on cases of fuel so that was even cheaper than Tower. He ATE that cost to keep loyal customers. When he wanted to retire completely he let the club members only in for a four-hour "going out of business sale" where he charged all of us his COST which was 50% of the sticker price ! I bought an OS Wankel engine for like $80.00 plus a crapload of other stuff. This made everything about 25% BELOW Tower. Wayne of Wayne's Hobby was a class act.
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  #13  
Old 03-17-2012, 09:49 PM
johnnwwa johnnwwa is offline
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So in your review where does the parachute fall.

Good


Bad

Ugly

or Crap-a-Chute ?
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  #14  
Old 03-17-2012, 11:07 PM
stefanj stefanj is offline
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Thanks for the review.

The decal issue is unusual. Not what I'd expect from Estes.
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  #15  
Old 03-18-2012, 01:17 AM
Initiator001 Initiator001 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnwwa
So in your review where does the parachute fall.

Good


Bad

Ugly

or Crap-a-Chute ?


Hopefully, the rocket 'falls' below the parachute.

I took the parachute out of its bag to look at it. It reminded me of the parachutes used in the North Coast Rocketry By Estes (NCRBE) kits.

I had my NCRBE Lance Beta model handy so I pulled out that kit's parachute and it looked quite similar to the Ventris parachute.

Here's where it gets scary. I had a set of all the NCRBE kit instructions handy and cross checked the parts list. The NCRBE Lance Beta/Elininator parachute has the SAME part number as the parachute in the Ventris kit (035814).

I've never had a problem with any of the NCRBE kit parachutes so I would rate the Ventris parachute as 'Good".
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  #16  
Old 03-18-2012, 01:44 AM
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Leo Leo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Initiator001

...

The Ugly

No decals

Well, not exacly. A small 'Estes Pro Series II' decal is included but those black roll patterns are not included in the kit.

Now, I wouldn't normally make a big deal of it as I could mask and paint or buy trim Monokote to replicate the pattern but there was a notice in the finishing section of the instructions about the roll pattern decals:

"Optional decal scheme purchase separately at estesrockets.com"

What?!

If I want the decals I have to pay extra?!!

I couldn't believe it.

I did go to the Estes webpage to try and find the decals but no luck.

I called Estes but when you press the button/number for customer service a message tells you to go to the Estes webpage and 'click' on the 'contact us' button (Send an e-mail).

I did as instructed and I have yet to receive a reply about the decals.


...


Thanks for the review!

That is an absolute No-Go. In a modern kit I expect the kit inside as it is pictured on the face card. Now I have to wait for reviews before I purchase an Estes kit.

That parts in a high priced kit don't fit is also disappointing.
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  #17  
Old 03-18-2012, 05:32 AM
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ghrocketman ghrocketman is offline
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OPTIONAL decals to match the kit header card decor scheme on a kit this expensive ???
You GOTTA be kidding me.

One would think with the success Semroc has with their SLS mid power line they would follow their lead, which would never include pulling that sort of nonsense.
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When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!!

Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL
, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't !

Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY.
ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, and HAVOC !
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  #18  
Old 03-18-2012, 10:03 AM
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Doug Sams Doug Sams is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Initiator001
Paper tri-fold shock cord anchor-This has to be the largest copy of the classic Estes paper folded shock cord mount I have ever seen in a kit. I was expecting a more 'robust' method of attaching the shock cord to the main body tube.


This brings to mind the tri-fold mount for M-powered rockets
...
That said, seriously, talking to kit vendors, there are some trade-offs to be made. You can't go long on every feature of the kit - the cost will make it uncompetitive. Even LOC uses elastic with a variation of the tri-fold mount, and most users upgrade it using their stash of kevlar and tubular nylon.
...
I would have expected decals, too, based on the face card.

Doug

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  #19  
Old 03-18-2012, 10:07 AM
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Jerry Irvine Jerry Irvine is offline
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Wow! I am going to take the other side of this trade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Initiator001
Okay, I have opened the Ventris kit and looked over the parts and instructions.
Three centering rings for the motor mount tube

Instructions-I understand the desire make the instructions tri-lingual but some steps lack enough verbage to be clear, the motor mount assembly for one

Paper tri-fold shock cord anchor-This has to be the largest copy of the classic Estes paper folded shock cord mount I have ever seen in a kit. I was expecting a more 'robust' method of attaching the shock cord to the main body tube

No decals

but those black roll patterns are not included in the kit.

"Optional decal scheme purchase separately at estesrockets.com"

I did go to the Estes webpage to try and find the decals but no luck.

I look forward to what others will have to say about building/flying these models.
The idea of aftermarket accessories is an interesting way to capture a second sale besides rocket motors of course. Not everyone uses the decals they get anyway, and some folks won't build a rocket without them. It takes all kinds.

I use the trifold in my kits I design and I have looked several times at sidegrading to a mounted kevlar line with a shock leader. It is simply a different scheme. It's also an inventory control issue for manufacturers.

My only criticism would be for three rings not two, but I suppose they have a methodology in mind. It certainly uses more resources and adds unnecessary mass.

The product line is not going to succeed or fail on these details on otherwise suitable kits. It will hinge on availability of motors and sell-thru of same.

Jerry
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  #20  
Old 03-18-2012, 10:15 AM
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Doug Sams Doug Sams is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Initiator001
Instructions-I understand the desire make the instructions tri-lingual but some steps lack enough verbage to be clear, the motor mount assembly for one.
I was using a recent vintage can of Valspar paint (with the twist-lock top).

I read and re-read the label several times looking for a couple of key instruction items...which I never found. The label was bi-lingual, so space was cramped. The bulk of text was warnings - ie, mostly useless BS there to satisfy the corporate lawyers. All this text was in a tiny font, packed very tightly. Then the actual user instructions were in an even smaller font, virtually unreadable to the naked eye (at least, the naked 50yo eye ).

No where in the instructions did it address cleanup. What's the recommended solvent? Water, mineral spirits or lacquer thinner? And should I turn the can upside down and spray it to clear the nozzle? Seems that it just kept dumping paint when I tried that.

Anyway, I can't help but make the same observation, that in their effort to accommodate more users (ie, non-English speaking users), Valspar ended up with crappy label info in multiple languages instead of good info in at least one language.

Doug

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