Ye Olde Rocket Forum

Go Back   Ye Olde Rocket Forum > Weather-Cocked > Current Kit Talk
User Name
Password
Auctions Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts Search Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #21  
Old 08-20-2012, 03:05 PM
Shreadvector's Avatar
Shreadvector Shreadvector is offline
Launching since 1970.
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Southern California
Posts: 2,188
Default

It is not a new law. The folks who wrote that law did so many decades ago when all model Rockets were illegal, so back then it was a great improvement.

The CA SFM was supposed to propose new legisalation to modernize this old weight limit and the prohibition on metal casings and handling components (which makes RMS and LMS HPR). They verbally said they would not enforce the old law and they would support a change. Time went by and they never made the change and several folks passed through that office.

In 2010 an enforcement issue involving Frank Kosdon forced their hand and they said they were legally obligated to abide by the law as written.

Efforts are underway to get it changed. It will take a while.

The CA SFM is not opposed to the change. it is simply a long and tedious process (if handled normally).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
You people in CA need to get those out-of-control law makers under control.
That state needs more laws like bill Gates needs more net worth.
The only new laws that should be legal in CA are ones overturning the old ones that intrude on personal individual freedoms toward some mamby-pamby collective good.
__________________
-Fred Shecter NAR 20117 (L2)
Southern California Rocket Association, NAR Section 430
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 08-20-2012, 03:54 PM
g0ldnd0g g0ldnd0g is offline
Advanced Rocketeer
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Detroit
Posts: 16
Default

Exactly what I thought AcroRay!
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 08-20-2012, 04:50 PM
Blushingmule's Avatar
Blushingmule Blushingmule is offline
Where'd it go?
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 580
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Initiator001
Bob,

Have you flown it yet?

I would have liked to get that model at the NARAM auction but I had no way to get it home and even if I did I couldn't fly it at a model rocket launch (California has a maximum weight/mass for model rockets of 500 grams. )

Take pictures when you fly it!


Bob,

Not yet, we're still looking for a local field here in Nacogdoches...maybe in the Dallas area
with DARS where John Dyer flies...will definitely take pics.

Bob
__________________
illegitimi non carborundum

NAR# 54643 L-1

SAM# 043

AMA# 157091

VRCS# 154

A&P# 42x xx xxxx.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 08-20-2012, 05:13 PM
Jerry Irvine's Avatar
Jerry Irvine Jerry Irvine is offline
Freeform rocketry advocate.
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Claremont, CA "The intellectual capitol of the world."-WSJ
Posts: 3,780
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shreadvector
In 2010 an enforcement issue involving Frank Kosdon forced their hand and they said they were legally obligated to abide by the law as written.
I'm just glad you said it not me.

CSFM has given lipservice to changing regs for 30 years that I know but when the rubber hits the road they don't want to. They like having compliance and enforcement be "verbal". Once you realize this is intentional and you ask permission (verbally) and "run what you brung", they are fine with it in practice.

I used to post about this on rmr. I called it "substantial compliance", a term they referred to at CSFM (now CA OSFM).

I pioneered and grew HPR (1974) before either TRA or NAR got on the bandwagon (1985) in this environment and they were fine with it.

I later learned the FEDGOV regulation also works about the same way on everything imaginable.

Jerry

Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 08-21-2012, 10:36 AM
Shreadvector's Avatar
Shreadvector Shreadvector is offline
Launching since 1970.
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Southern California
Posts: 2,188
Default

They have changed "regs", it is the "law" they have not changed and which they gave lipservice to changing.

They know they need to clean things up since they not only have outdated laws, but the regs currently refer to old editions of NFPA code (which is fine, you just need to get the old version to be able to read the correct portions referenced by the regulations).

If I ever get any real facts that I can report on progress or ongoing efforts to get the changes made, I will report what I can. If I cannot report, then I will not report.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Irvine
I'm just glad you said it not me.

CSFM has given lipservice to changing regs for 30 years that I know but when the rubber hits the road they don't want to. They like having compliance and enforcement be "verbal". Once you realize this is intentional and you ask permission (verbally) and "run what you brung", they are fine with it in practice.

I used to post about this on rmr. I called it "substantial compliance", a term they referred to at CSFM (now CA OSFM).

I pioneered and grew HPR (1974) before either TRA or NAR got on the bandwagon (1985) in this environment and they were fine with it.

I later learned the FEDGOV regulation also works about the same way on everything imaginable.

Jerry

__________________
-Fred Shecter NAR 20117 (L2)
Southern California Rocket Association, NAR Section 430
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 08-21-2012, 11:10 AM
ghrocketman's Avatar
ghrocketman ghrocketman is offline
President, MAYHEM AGITATORS, Inc.
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Nunya Bizznuss, Michigan
Posts: 13,443
Default

The law/regs should not exist. Not only should model rocketry up to the US FEDERAL definition be legal in CA, it should be TOTALLY UNREGULATED as well.
__________________
When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!!

Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL
, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't !

Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY.
ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, and HAVOC !
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 08-21-2012, 05:42 PM
Jerry Irvine's Avatar
Jerry Irvine Jerry Irvine is offline
Freeform rocketry advocate.
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Claremont, CA "The intellectual capitol of the world."-WSJ
Posts: 3,780
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shreadvector
If I ever get any real facts that I can report on progress or ongoing efforts to get the changes made, I will report what I can. If I cannot report, then I will not report.
I will listen for crickets.

If you (by that I mean the reader of this message attached with NAR or major vendor heirarchy) need help authoring model code and lobbying for its adoption, let me know. My group mainly focuses on Amateur and FX stuff, but has standing to bring OSFM recognized credibility to the effort.

My stated goal is to allow Wal-Mart or hobby store class rockets to be operated at any park or school or vacant site that meets the site standards set forth by NAR. I suggest site dimension 1/4 the expected altitude, to accommodate big dumb rockets, and a non-combustible zone around the pad. If that means NAR needs to clarify that for CA in particular, so be it, but making reference to NAR rather than whatever else is likely to be the most authoritative, up to date, and safety minded.

Besides you don't have to know the secret access method and pay a fee for NAR standards.

http://v-serv.com/usr/safetycodes.htm

I have always felt this is something the vendors should do in cooperation with licensees in the state, as an ad hoc, industry rep group.

It helps the need is clear and present, and there has been a federal change to accommodate.

Jerry

Last edited by Jerry Irvine : 08-21-2012 at 10:10 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 08-22-2012, 04:39 PM
RWmarlow RWmarlow is offline
Gentleman Rocketeer
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Nashville TN
Posts: 198
Thumbs up

On the ESTES site the "Short Round" and "Mini Fat Boy" are up
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 08-22-2012, 05:57 PM
stefanj stefanj is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hillsboro, OR
Posts: 2,847
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RWmarlow
On the ESTES site the "Short Round" and "Mini Fat Boy" are up

I couldn't find those.

Odd. A search for "short round" resulted in the Estes Jetliner appearing.
__________________
NAR #27085 - Oregon Rocketry - SAM
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 08-22-2012, 06:29 PM
LW Bercini's Avatar
LW Bercini LW Bercini is offline
BAR Redux
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Macon GA
Posts: 107
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanj
I couldn't find those.

Odd. A search for "short round" resulted in the Estes Jetliner appearing.


Short Round is #1401
Mini Fat Boy is #2442
__________________
__________________
Lawrence William
SAM #0422
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:17 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ye Olde Rocket Shoppe © 1998-2024