I seriously doubt the NAR will ever sanction an EX motor program.

It is a legacy of the history of the organization. One of the big reasons the NAR was formed was to legalize model rocketry. To do so, they had to form an alliance with NFPA and the fire fighting community and prove that we do not pose an inordinate danger to the public. The NFPA is much more interested in preventing structure fires than grass fires.

Unless it can be shown that EX activities will not increase the risk of structure fires, we will not get a blessing. Few people have access to the necessary property, namely a separate building for propellant handling that the NFPA will insist is required to participate. Some may be willing to take that risk, but insurance companies will not.


Bill

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It is well past time to Drill, Baby, Drill!

If your June, July, August and September was like this, you might just hate summer too...

Please unload your question before you ask it unless you have a concealed harry permit.

: countdown begin cr dup . 1- ?dup 0= until cr ." Launch!" cr ;

Give a man a rocket and he will fly for a day; teach him to build and he will spend the rest of his days sanding...

Uhh...no, I don't want ANY stinkin' gubmint involvement AT ALL. I want hobby rocketry to be a totally DE-regulated free-for-all. That would suit me just fine. If one wants to be hazardous and it wrecks their basement, that should be within their purview. It's called individual FREEDOM, pal. Incorrect experimentation with propellants would automatically separate the "wheat" from the "chaff". The consequences could be severe. TOUGH. Those that do so foolishly would get the "Darwin" awards.

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When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!!

Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't !
Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY.
ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, and HAVOC !

Were I--like a unicorn--"sufficient unto myself," with the power to enforce and maintain that status of being "a law and nation unto myself," I would advocate that as well (and I do live and conduct my affairs this way, as much as I can). Since we cannot (at least as things stand at the present) do this with regard to experimental and amateur rocketry, "amplifying" the current status quo might be best; that is, promising young people who have those interests can be referred to existing experimental rocketry programs such as John Wickmans', Tripoli's, and "Rocket Ranch." Also, I believe the old RRS (Rocket Research Society) is still around (although possibly under a different name). Doing this rocket research and experimentation informally (although with rigorous self-adopted safety procedures, of course) may be the best way forward at present.

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Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR

You made reference to a bunch of organizations that are inactive, clickish, small scale, or otherwise inaccessable.

In order for your vision to be true some reasonable access would have to be possible. I submit for your consideration "Friends of Amateur Rocketry"

http://friendsofamateurrocketry.org/

Tech Jerry

That would work except for one problem... people...

And, PEOPLE SUCK!

IF we lived on the frontier with nobody around, the "free for all" method would work fine... after all, nobody would be around to get hurt if you pull some @$$-grabbing stupid stunt and managed to perforate yourself-- Darwin would win and we'd all be better off...

BUT, when you have a GROUP of people, some responsible and safety minded, and some just @$$-clowns doing whatever stupid sh!t pops into their head, SOMEBODY is going to get hurt. Throw in the fact that now we're surrounded by totally non-involved people who just happen to be living, working, or playing nearby, and the risks of collateral damage increases exponentially...

Basically it comes down to my right to not be hurt or have my property damaged by your @ss-grabbery is more important than your right to be as big an @$$-clown as you can possibly be without consequences...

Later! OL JR

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The X-87B Cruise Basselope-- THE Ultimate Weapon in the arsenal of Homeland Security and only $52 million per round!

Well, we seem to be moving closer and closer to a society in which no one is really responsible for their actions.

Heck, may get to the point where the ACLU will gladly defend your 'free-style' rocketry hobby, without repercusions, especially if it can be shown you undertook your hobby because of 'environment', 'bad parenting', or any other of a long list of 'things' these days that renders folks supposedly totally incapable of controlling their own actions, regardless of how dumb-a$$ they are.


Earl

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Earl L. Cagle, Jr.
NAR# 29523
TRA# 962
SAM# 73
Owner/Producer
Point 39 Productions

Rocket-Brained Since 1970

Very interesting and encouraging...their description (reproduced below), on FAR's opening page, sounds like what I had in mind:

"In 2003 four guys Kevin Baxter an inventor, Fred Holmes a patent attorney, Mark Holthaus an electrical engineer, and Ted Rothaupt a mechanical engineer, came together to form the Friends of Amateur Rocketry, Inc. (FAR). Their goal was to encourage cooperation between individuals and groups involved in amateur rocketry. To this end, they purchased and developed FAR site, a ten-acre property which is a safe location to test and launch rockets.

"FAR has since become a publicly supported nonprofit corporation recognized by the IRS. Its mission has expanded to educate the general public in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics (STEM) through the use of amateur rocketry; and to foster rocket technology by supporting individuals, hobbyists, student groups, businesses, and other like-minded non-profit entities. To date, FAR has worked with the Boy Scouts, hobbyists, university students, aerospace start ups, and the Mythbusters cable television show.

"The FAR site is uniquely located under the R2508 controlled air space umbrella of Edwards Air Force Base, at the edge of a military supersonic corridor, many miles from any inhabited area. This allows us to have a much higher launch altitude than most other locations in California. Our FAA Wavier allows rockets up to 9,208-lb. sec. total impulse. Launch altitudes are up to 18,000-feet Monday through Friday and 50,000-feet on Saturday and Sunday. We have also received all the necessary local, state, and federal licenses, allowing a user to test rocket technologies without the overhead found at government and military ranges.

"In addition, we have pyrotechnic operators licensed by the California State Fire Marshal and the ATF to help you safely manufacture, store, set up, test, and launch rockets. Our facility has a blockhouse, viewing bunkers, explosive magazines, fire fighting equipment, propellant storage, static test stands, and launch rails. Other facilities include: an assembly building, work shops, storage, sun shade, weather station, internet, electrical power, street lights (for night operations), non-potable water, outhouse (restrooms are under construction), and camping.

"We have an assortment of heavy equipment such as: all-terrain-forklift, skip loader, and boom crane to help with loading, unloading, and setup. For fabrication and assembly we have a lathe, mill, drill press, chop saw, grinder, and welder. For safety, we have first aid, automatic defibrillator, oxygen, and a helipad for emergency evacuations.

For our schedule and fees, visit our Home/Calendar and Customers/Fees pages.
To contact us, please visit our Home/Contact Us page.

FAR would like to thank Mike Tockstein of Pyroinnovations (http://www.pyroinnovations.com/) for constructing and hosting our first website for free."

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Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR

Take a look at RICHARD NAKKA's "RNX" propellant . . .

http://www.nakka-rocketry.net/

Seven years later . . .

I STILL advocate the "FREE FER ALL" with No DIRECT HARM=No FOUL !
If it's indirect harm, TOUGH ROCKS.

__________________
When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!!

Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't !
Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY.
ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, and HAVOC !