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  #11  
Old 05-29-2019, 09:02 AM
Shamous Shamous is offline
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I recently discussed the idea of bringing back all the old Estes scale kits with Ellis Langford and Bill Stine at the TARC booth. There are a bunch of us old guys that would interested. We are now older, have better skills, and most have some cash to buy them. Granted, this would probably have to be a smaller, limited run, but most of us BARs would love it.
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  #12  
Old 05-29-2019, 10:31 AM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamous
I recently discussed the idea of bringing back all the old Estes scale kits with Ellis Langford and Bill Stine at the TARC booth. There are a bunch of us old guys that would interested. We are now older, have better skills, and most have some cash to buy them. Granted, this would probably have to be a smaller, limited run, but most of us BARs would love it.
You hit on the secret--periodic, limited production runs of the classic scale kits would ensure that they would all sell, that all of us old-timers could buy the kits we either lost or couldn't afford (or didn't build well) as kids, and it would also generate interest among today's young model rocketeers (or space modelers, as model rocketeers are called in other countries). Those of today have never seen a Centuri 1:100 scale Apollo-Saturn IB or a 1:100 scale Apollo-Little Joe II kit, and would be amazed by them. (While I am thankful that Estes produced a 1:100 scale Apollo-Little Joe II kit in the 1990s, Centuri's 1:100 scale Apollo-Little Joe II kit was--with all due respect to Estes--a better and much easier-to-build kit, which was an excellent first scale model rocket for beginning space modelers [their 1:45 scale version, like Estes', was/is definitely for experienced builders!].) Also:

For new scale models of the type that I suggested in the opening posting of this thread (flying scale models of historic launch vehicles--such as the Atlas-Agena D--that come with same-scale plastic models of historic spacecraft that they lofted, such as Mariner 5; they could be displayed atop the launch vehicle models, perhaps inside clear plastic display payload fairings), producing them in periodic, limited runs would also confer those above-listed advantages to Estes and their older (and younger) customers. The production runs of these kits--and re-issues of the classic scale kits--could be offered in any of multiple ways. They could be produced in limited quantities and released on the dates of their most historic missions annually, or every two years, or every five years, etc. Plus:

The "launch vehicle plus spacecraft" kits that I suggested could be offered in these and other ways. For example, the Atlas-Agena D lofted several historic spacecraft--including Mariner 4, Mariner 5, and the five Lunar Orbiter spacecraft. An Atlas-Agena D kit (possibly the same scale as Estes' Mercury-Atlas kit) could come with a same-scale plastic model of Mariner 4, and models of the other historic spacecraft the rocket carried (Mariner 5, Lunar Orbiter 1 - 5, etc.) could be sold separately. OR...the Atlas-Agena D kits could be offered with all of these spacecraft models included in them, or they could be "separately scattered" throughout the production run. That is, some Atlas-Agena D kits would include a Mariner 4 model, while others would include the Mariner 5 and Lunar Orbiter models. In fact:

Just as the latest re-issue of Estes' 1:100 scale Apollo-Saturn V kit now includes a 1:100 scale Lunar Module static model, a re-issue of the 1:100 scale Centuri Apollo-Saturn IB kit could come with a same-scale plastic model of the Docking Module that was carried aboard the Apollo-Saturn IB that flew in the 1975 Apollo-Soyuz Test Project (ASTP) mission. (This would also--since the Saturn IBs that flew in the Skylab program as well as ASTP had all-white first stages--provide alternate [and easier to re-create] paint schemes for the model [which could also, if desired, be painted and decal-ed to depict Apollo 7]. Many Centuri kits' instructions suggested "easy" and "challenging" paint schemes, which were described and illustrated in the instructions, and the re-issued Apollo-Saturn IB kit could continue that tradition.)
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Last edited by blackshire : 05-29-2019 at 10:57 AM.
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  #13  
Old 05-29-2019, 01:51 PM
Shamous Shamous is offline
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I really think that what you said is doable and profitable. I'm glad you agree with me. I know that there will a bunch of others too.
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  #14  
Old 05-29-2019, 02:14 PM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamous
I really think that what you said is doable and profitable. I'm glad you agree with me. I know that there will a bunch of others too.
Thank you. I hope the folks at Estes also concur (if enough of us suggested it to them, it might persuade them to do it...). From their point of view, having all of the kits sell at profitable unit prices, and at an acceptable rate, would make it financially worthwhile and attractive to them.
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Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR
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  #15  
Old 05-29-2019, 02:18 PM
Shamous Shamous is offline
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Happy customers and a profitable company is a winning combination.
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  #16  
Old 05-29-2019, 02:39 PM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamous
Happy customers and a profitable company is a winning combination.
...And includes a happy kit designer (our own "JumpJet" here!). :-)
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Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR
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  #17  
Old 05-29-2019, 02:52 PM
Shamous Shamous is offline
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Yes, John is a great guy.
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  #18  
Old 05-30-2019, 02:54 PM
BigRIJoe BigRIJoe is offline
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Default Mariner 3's Atlas=Agena-D

Well, Blackshire why not model the Atlas Agena D that launched mariner 3? You can always tell everyone that under the un-jettisoned shroud, sits Mariner 3!
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  #19  
Old 06-07-2019, 11:10 AM
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Royatl Royatl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimsonvelvetflame
Since Estes has discontinued their Saturn IV-B. Why not a Super Scale Saturn IV-B, based on the current 24mm E motor powered Estes Apollo Little Joe II O.D. 3.42"tube, capsule, escape tower, etc.? 38mm motor powered, or clustering 29mm motors and should produce a lot of smoke and fire. I still dare to dream.


Um, They did that back in 1993 (there's a photo somewhere of Mary Roberts at a trade show standing next to it). I think they made two prototypes. They flew (and crashed) one at NARAM in 1994. The other one I saw in John Boren's lab at Estes (you can see part of it in the 2019 catalog scale centerfold).

I think had they continued with the Dark Star motors, we would have seen it in production in 1999 or so. The only way they would produce it now is if they had their own G motor. Since Ellis Langford has implied that Estes will stick to black powder, I don't think that will ever happen. But who knows?
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  #20  
Old 06-07-2019, 11:47 AM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Royatl
Um, They did that back in 1993 (there's a photo somewhere of Mary Roberts at a trade show standing next to it). I think they made two prototypes. They flew (and crashed) one at NARAM in 1994. The other one I saw in John Boren's lab at Estes (you can see part of it in the 2019 catalog scale centerfold).

I think had they continued with the Dark Star motors, we would have seen it in production in 1999 or so. The only way they would produce it now is if they had their own G motor. Since Ellis Langford has implied that Estes will stick to black powder, I don't think that will ever happen. But who knows?
There is another possibility, which Quest pioneered. Their largest kits were (and are) designed to use large single-use and reloadable composite motors that they themselves do not produce (and this was ^before^--if memory serves--they merged with Aerotech as part of the overarching company whose three-letter initials [R-something] appear on Quest order invoices). Estes need not produce any motors--black powder, double-base, or composite propellant--that are more powerful than their E motors. An Estes Super Scale Saturn I, Saturn IB, or Saturn V kit could be designed to use other companies' higher-than-E total impulse motors (such kits could also, depending on their size and weight, use clustered E and/or D motors, just as the 1:100 scale Saturn V kit can use either one D12 or a cluster of three C6 motors).
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Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR
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