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  #21  
Old 03-18-2020, 02:56 PM
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Gus Gus is offline
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I checked with Bob, he didn't have any of the motors. But Taras contacted Saverio Prato of the Canadian team who provided the following picture with the accompanying text.

Thanks Saverio!

Here is an image of the Shand motor (1973) with igniter next to the re-branded Canaroc motor under the SMI name (Roger Lufkin tried to market that brand in USA after Irwin dropped Canaroc).

Taras suggested these motors weren't around long because the company had distribution problems. Any other history of the company or principals would be appreciated.

Steve
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  #22  
Old 03-18-2020, 05:42 PM
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ghrocketman ghrocketman is offline
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Rocketarium produces the ARG line of kits now I believe.
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  #23  
Old 03-18-2020, 08:33 PM
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Taras did some more digging in his papers. Really interesting info.

"Looking through my Cdn archives.

Shand came out early seventies. then I went into the Air Force and when I came out in late 70's, Shand was gone. Then I went to Hobby Industries (Estes' Cdn importer/distributor) and Shand was no where to be found, only Canaroc.

Yes, composite motor. I use to know the composition/formulation since he had to have declared that info in their engine testing packet to the Explosives Dept., which we at CARTECH (CAR Technical Services) would receive a copy.

As to ARG, I originally bought all the Irwin/Canaroc parts from a mail order company called Pan Axiom Autonetics (they were my "publisher" for the 4 issues of SPACE MODELLER). I then took back SM from him and bought his stock of Canaroc parts, to create my first ARG kits. Then for a short time I published The Journal of Miniature Astronautics (mainly translations of east European rocket activities, plans and scale data). Also some FAI type supplies, best remembered for the "Canadian Red Parachute Plastic" material.

Yes I did "sell" ARG to Sunward, (Mar 13, 2006) but that didn't work out, so the agreement was terminated Dec 17, 2010. Then I sold it to Denau Hobby Supplies Ltd on March 6, 2015. Denau has done great and has released the BB and Trident series of kits to date. In the US it is known as Rocketarium.

Recently formed Tataryn-ASV Corp., just consulting, prototyping, plans and "small" intention to sell competition (FAI) related products. ASV = aero-space vehicles.

Taras Tataryn
CAR # 03
MAAC # 14757
NAR # 10853"
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  #24  
Old 03-18-2020, 09:39 PM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbzep
I just sent an email to the Canadian Rocketry Assn to see if they can point me toward a Canadian rocketry historian.
Just in case the CAR didn't know (and hopefully there will be a CARNAT [and a NARAM] this year...), I was going to suggest contacting Taras Tataryn (a CAR founding member), but he has already passed along what he knows, which I see is a lot! Garth Illerbrun (another CAR founding member--or at least a *very* early CAR member, who is here on YORF [his handle is Quixote]), along with Lawrence Tulissi, may have additional information about--and perhaps even products made by--Shand Industries.
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  #25  
Old 03-18-2020, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gus
I checked with Bob, he didn't have any of the motors. But Taras contacted Saverio Prato of the Canadian team who provided the following picture with the accompanying text.

Thanks Saverio!

Here is an image of the Shand motor (1973) with igniter next to the re-branded Canaroc motor under the SMI name (Roger Lufkin tried to market that brand in USA after Irwin dropped Canaroc).

Taras suggested these motors weren't around long because the company had distribution problems. Any other history of the company or principals would be appreciated.

Steve
Thank you for posting the picture! A B2-4 would make a nice small-field streamer/'chute/tumble/featherweight recovery model motor, and possibly also a good boost-glider and/or rocket glider motor. (The 4-second delay seems a tad too long for B/Gs and RGs at first glance, *but* their greater ascent drag--plus the slower ascent due to the lower average thrust--might "mesh well" together to yield good, high apogee altitudes [for B class impulse] with glide recovery models.) Also:

If I still had a flying field and was physically fit to fly model rockets, if CTI or another Canadian firm offered such Canadian BP and composite motors (especially if they were "nostalgically labeled" ['Retro-Repro' labeled, in Semroc's parlance] as Canaroc, Shand, Hi-Tech, and SMI motors [and perhaps also other firms' motors] were labeled back then), I would gladly buy and use them, particularly the "gap" motors (whose average thrust levels and delay lengths were ones not found among Estes', Quest's, and Aerotech's motor selections). For example:

MPC offered--among its other BP motors--a C6-4 (it was recommended for their Titan IIIC and--if memory serves--their Vostok kit, as well as other kits of theirs). A C6-4 (and other "odd" [by Estes/Centuri/Quest standards] average thrust/delay duration motors) would give space modelers more choices for given model rocket weights & drag characteristics, as well as for individual model rocketeers' (and clubs') available flying fields' sizes.
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Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR
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  #26  
Old 03-18-2020, 10:48 PM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gus
LOL, good call, John.

I asked Taras and here is his response.

As to Shand and Canaroc (Roger Lufkin), as far as I know they did not do business together. The Canaroc (Irwin Group/Toy) that I worked for did not. Shand did not last too long, great product but not too good on a distribution system. Looking back, I should have approached him to market his motors. Like I said before his igniters were a work of art. Very nicely done and labour intensive. Motors had a wrap around label and nice nozzle.
Gus, since you know Taras and have his contact information, below is an idea that might interest him. He mentioned--as you quoted (in part)--the following:

"As to ARG, I originally bought all the Irwin/Canaroc parts from a mail order company called Pan Axiom Autonetics (they were my "publisher" for the 4 issues of SPACE MODELLER). I then took back SM from him and bought his stock of Canaroc parts, to create my first ARG kits. Then for a short time I published The Journal of Miniature Astronautics (mainly translations of east European rocket activities, plans and scale data). Also some FAI type supplies, best remembered for the "Canadian Red Parachute Plastic" material." Here is my idea:

He could, at *zero* cost and effort (with regard to taking orders and shipping them to customers), POD--Print-On-Demand--publish his issues of SPACE MODELLER and Miniature Astronautics, in any form he desired (individual issues as he originally sold them [I have a few Miniature Astronautics issues, boxed up with other books and magazines], as "compilation books" [softcover and/or hardcover], etc.). ALSO:

Lulu.com ( www.lulu.com , which POD publishes *my* book--its link is the first one below, in my .sig file) and CreateSpace.com ( www.createspace.com , which is owned by Amazon.com, and automatically advertises its POD published authors' works on Amazon.com [Lulu.com also has such an arrangement with Amazon.com--my book used to be listed on Amazon.com, too--now a Lulu.com POD published book must have an ISBN, which isn't terribly expensive to get, in order to be listed on Amazon.com]) handle all order-taking and shipping, and the author retains the copyright to his or her work (or works), and:

Lulu.com and CreateSpace.com make a percentage on each book sold, and pay the author (who gets the lion's share of the money made on each copy) royalties via either check or PayPal, according to the author's choice. (Another nice feature is that if the author desires, his or her royalty payments can instead be sent directly to another recipient; all of my book's royalties go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com , a draft horse sanctuary run by friends of mine near Spilsby, Lincolnshire in England.)
__________________
Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR
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  #27  
Old 03-18-2020, 10:53 PM
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MarkB. MarkB. is offline
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Comrades,

I always wondered about the Canadian with the Thark name.

I have one of the Rocketarium 1/10 Black Brants that may get built a lot sooner if I have to stay home.

Thanks for the info.
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NAR 79743
NARTrek Silver
SAM 062

Awaiting First Launch: Aero-Dart; TLP Hellfire; Tomahawk 12, Tomahawk 9; Rescue Alpha
Finishing: Zooch Saturn V; Tomahawk 7; Paiute; Nike-Rams
Repair/Rescue: Centuri Stilleto; Estes Sandhawk; Empire Nike Ajax
On the Bench: Atlas V 541; Alway Arcas
Dream Stage: 1/39.37 R-7
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  #28  
Old 03-18-2020, 11:19 PM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkB.
Comrades,

I always wondered about the Canadian with the Thark name.

I have one of the Rocketarium 1/10 Black Brants that may get built a lot sooner if I have to stay home.

Thanks for the info.
Thark...? I helped Taras--slightly--when he was developing that Black Brant III kit, years ago. (At least part of it involved sending him the Ninfinger Productions link to the May 1970 [Semroc] "Astronautic Modeler" catalog [see: http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/ca...0semroccat.html ], which covers their 1/10 scale Black Brant III kit--and its parts--on pages 9, 14, and 42 - 44 [incidentally, Semroc's material on boost-gliders and other model rocket types, elsewhere in this manual/catalog, is refreshingly novel and more extensive than many primers on them].)
__________________
Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR
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  #29  
Old 03-19-2020, 08:25 AM
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MarkB. MarkB. is offline
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Thark?

Come on Blackshire, you're forgetting your history. Tars Tarkas? Dejah Thoris? You're an old guy, I know you read these on cheap, yellowed newsprint in a paper back with a racy Frank Frazetta cover.

Remember?
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__________________
Identifying a problem without proposing a solution is just whining.

NAR 79743
NARTrek Silver
SAM 062

Awaiting First Launch: Aero-Dart; TLP Hellfire; Tomahawk 12, Tomahawk 9; Rescue Alpha
Finishing: Zooch Saturn V; Tomahawk 7; Paiute; Nike-Rams
Repair/Rescue: Centuri Stilleto; Estes Sandhawk; Empire Nike Ajax
On the Bench: Atlas V 541; Alway Arcas
Dream Stage: 1/39.37 R-7
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  #30  
Old 03-19-2020, 11:13 AM
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ghrocketman ghrocketman is offline
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That 100%-I Shand 640 motor sounds decent.
__________________
When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!!
No DIRECT and MEASURABLE Harm=NO Foul advocate

If you are NOT FLYING LOW in the left lane, you need to GET THE #$&@ OUT of it !

Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL
, if you have to ask, you probably aren't
!
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