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  #11  
Old 09-18-2020, 02:08 PM
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Earl Earl is offline
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Originally Posted by Vanel
Again, astronomers like me disagree, and have always done so. No human being has ever escaped the Earth's gravitational influence (even in orbit about the Moon, the Earth significantly perturbs the orbit, and the spacecraft executes an orbit of spirals about the Earth/Moon barycenter).

Going to the Moon was a fabulous incredible achievement, but this notion that the Earth was left behind is simply wrong.


Alternate: First time setting foot on another body in our solar system.

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  #12  
Old 09-18-2020, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Vanel
As someone with first hand experience with NASA, I think the agency has the following major issues:


2) Bureaucracy - NASA has become a mature bureaucracy, which means lots of regulations, paperwork, etc. This inhibits the ability to get things done in a reasonable length of time and adds costs. Bureaucracies look after themselves.


My $0.02...


A perfect example of Pournelle's "Iron Law of Bureaucracy"
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  #13  
Old 09-18-2020, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanel
Again, astronomers like me disagree, and have always done so. No human being has ever escaped the Earth's gravitational influence (even in orbit about the Moon, the Earth significantly perturbs the orbit, and the spacecraft executes an orbit of spirals about the Earth/Moon barycenter).

Going to the Moon was a fabulous incredible achievement, but this notion that the Earth was left behind is simply wrong.

Would Apollo have gone into a highly elliptical earth orbit or into Solar orbit if they had "missed" the moon? That thought might sway me one way or the other in the argument. I have read/heard both ways, but I have not, nor would I ever want do the math to find out.
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  #14  
Old 09-18-2020, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by tbzep
Would Apollo have gone into a highly elliptical earth orbit or into Solar orbit if they had "missed" the moon? That thought might sway me one way or the other in the argument. I have read/heard both ways, but I have not, nor would I ever want do the math to find out.
Not to derail Earl’s fine thread but speaking of Apollo astronauts and math, well let’s just be glad that it was Lovell on Apollo 13 doing the math calculations to not end up in Solar orbit instead of me with a pencil and no modern computer ... or it would have been hey guys is it just me or is it getting really hot in here?

https://gizmodo.com/the-math-that-s...388-375-5863778

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  #15  
Old 09-18-2020, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbzep
Would Apollo have gone into a highly elliptical earth orbit or into Solar orbit if they had "missed" the moon? That thought might sway me one way or the other in the argument. I have read/heard both ways, but I have not, nor would I ever want do the math to find out.


Nope - the TLI burn put them into an highly elliptical orbit with apogee at the Moon's distance. Close to, but not quite Earth escape. So if the Moon wasn't there, they would come back to low Earth orbit. However, they had the capability to escape if they fired the SM motor too long in the wrong direction.
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  #16  
Old 09-18-2020, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanel
Nope - the TLI burn put them into an highly elliptical orbit with apogee at the Moon's distance. Close to, but not quite Earth escape. So if the Moon wasn't there, they would come back to low Earth orbit. However, they had the capability to escape if they fired the SM motor too long in the wrong direction.

I wouldn't consider a 240,000 mile apogee to be LEO, no matter how close perigee is.
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  #17  
Old 09-19-2020, 12:01 AM
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The perigee would be in low Earth orbit, but as you say, the orbit would not transform into a LEO one. However, they would spend a small fraction of time at LEO altitudes - that’s what I meant by come back to LEO.
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  #18  
Old 09-19-2020, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanel
The perigee would be in low Earth orbit, but as you say, the orbit would not transform into a LEO one. However, they would spend a small fraction of time at LEO altitudes - that’s what I meant by come back to LEO.

I understood, hence the . I was just noting it so future lurkers wouldn't think they'd end up safe and sound in LEO after a miss.
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  #19  
Old 09-19-2020, 08:35 PM
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Sigh - I didn’t notice the smiley. I’m getting too old...
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  #20  
Old 09-19-2020, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
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Sigh - I didn’t notice the smiley. I’m getting too old...

I'm just hoping nobody riots because I said LEO (law enforcement officer/low earth orbit).
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