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  #11  
Old 10-20-2020, 01:46 PM
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ghrocketman ghrocketman is offline
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Use a small Xacto needle file up in the upper stage grain to "rough it up".
A small jewelers screwdriver should work too.
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  #12  
Old 10-20-2020, 09:40 PM
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Expecting a black powder motor to reliably ignite an AP upper stage is always going to be problematic. Yes, it'll work sometimes, but even black powder to black powder occasionally fails (and yes, I also do the bit of using a small drill bit to roughen up the base of the BP motor). BP to AP is asking for trouble.
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  #13  
Old 10-20-2020, 11:43 PM
Initiator001 Initiator001 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5x7
I think you need the label on the engine for it to work. Seriously, I have noticed some nozzle throats with flash or have swelled. Was there resistance to the igniter through the throat?


None at all.

The igniter went through the nozzle and all the way up the grain.

Darn near instant ignition too.
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  #14  
Old 10-20-2020, 11:45 PM
Initiator001 Initiator001 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heada
What is the nozzle throat diameter on the q-jets? I have a pack of C12s and D16s but I haven't used them yet. It could be possible to stage them just as you attempted if you use a section of fast paper fuse to pass fire into the q-jet. Fast paper fuse works similar to the old thermalite fuse and burns at 0.1 or 0.4 seconds per foot (REALLY fast!) Fast paper fuse is just about 3mm wide so if the nozzle is too small, that obviously wouldn't work.

https://www.skylighter.com/collecti...se-white-gn1207

Legal to buy in the US and ship ground. I don't remember if its HazMat but I don't think so. $15 for 20ft so a single purchase lasts a long time.

If the core is 3", I'd cut about 3 1/2" of fuse and wrap the middle 3" with a single wrap of masking tape leaving 1/4" exposed on either end. The 1/4" exposed at the nozzle end will gladly catch from the ejection of the booster motor and the 1/4" at the delay end should ignite the motor like any normal igniter. The tape will inhibit trying to ignite the motor from the nozzle end and give a chuff.

I use this method to ignite 4x E12 outboards from a central F42 in a 5 motor cluster I have. (USR "F with multiple D" kit) I wire up the F42 as normal and each E12 has a section of fast fuse that is taped to the nozzle of the F42. Once that F42 starts going, it ignites the fuse which in turn ignites the BP motors and the E12s are going before it starts moving on the rod.


Gary Rosenfield and I have communicated about my staging attempt.

He thinks a piece of thermalite in the upper stage Q-Jet C12 would have worked.
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  #15  
Old 10-20-2020, 11:47 PM
Initiator001 Initiator001 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
How did you tape the two motors together ?


One wrap of clear Scotch tape.
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  #16  
Old 10-20-2020, 11:49 PM
Initiator001 Initiator001 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott_650
Hmmm...Gary Rosenfield said, both in his interview on the Rocketry Show/Model Rocket Show podcast (I forget which one) and somewhere on the interwebs that they’d successfully staged C/D QJets from Estes BP booster motors. He did say that the smaller QJets wouldn’t stage reliably because of the narrower nozzles. I have a couple D QJets with some crumbling around the nozzles that I’m going to try staging next time I do a personal launch on a friend’s farm - I wouldn’t want to try it at a club launch. Using fuze should work great but I’m going to try it like the OP did and see what happens.


Gary said after I informed him of my test results that Quest will not be pursuing staging applications of the Q-Jet motors.
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  #17  
Old 10-20-2020, 11:51 PM
Initiator001 Initiator001 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbzep
A bit of oxidation forms on the surface of APCP over time. If it's possible to get something in there to rough it up a little, it should help, even on a fairly new motor. I'm sure Gary was testing pretty fresh batches when they staged them.


These were the Black Max propellant Q-Jet motors (C12, D16).

Always quick to ignite.
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  #18  
Old 10-21-2020, 04:56 AM
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5x7 5x7 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Initiator001
These were the Black Max propellant Q-Jet motors (C12, D16).

Always quick to ignite.


It was worth a try, for sure.
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  #19  
Old 10-21-2020, 09:17 AM
heada heada is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Initiator001
Gary Rosenfield and I have communicated about my staging attempt.

He thinks a piece of thermalite in the upper stage Q-Jet C12 would have worked.

I opened my packs of Qjets last night. The nozzle openings are too small for any of the fuse that I have seen. Its possible to make your own fuse that is narrow enough to fit through the nozzle opening but I wouldn't do it.

Looks like I'll use electronics to stage them if I need to.
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  #20  
Old 10-21-2020, 09:45 AM
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Joe Wooten Joe Wooten is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Initiator001
Gary Rosenfield and I have communicated about my staging attempt.

He thinks a piece of thermalite in the upper stage Q-Jet C12 would have worked.


Back in the late 80's I used thermalite to stage two E6's. Worked like a champ. That was back when Aerotech made an E6-0. I never found the upper stage. Even with a streamer, it drifted way too far off.
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