No, I did mean BT-40 tubes. The MMI tubes were 0.75" I.D. tubes. That tube size was later designated BT-40 by Estes. They didn't have BT-50 tubes or 24mm motors in 1958.

GHS used a mailing tube and not a BT-70, which also didn't exist. A common mailing tube size is 2.5" by 30" - which looks "about right" to me.

Those a the parts that I would use to clone an Honest Ivan, though a modern "clean" design would use BT-70 and BT-20 tubes. Going CHAD seems more "honest."
-W

__________________
-Wolfram v. Kiparski
NAR 28643 - TRA 15520
MTMA Section #606 President

Hey Wolf,Thanks a whole bunch.Now that's exactly the kind of information I've been looking for.Can those mailing tubes still be found?I think you're probably right about the length, if not dead on them pretty close.

I have an NCR Cluster Duck. They use a heavy wall BT-80 tube with a 24mm mount in the center and six 18mm around.

Might find one in an office supply store.

__________________
-Wolfram v. Kiparski
NAR 28643 - TRA 15520
MTMA Section #606 President

To me, it does not look like the 7 tubes are a "perfect fit" and that the body tube was "notched" to accommodate the engine mount tubes.

I think Harry used a 30" - 36" long 2.00" I.D. mailing tube ( 2.25" O.D. ).

If the engine mount tubes were BT-40 ( .765 I.D. / .821" O.D. ), that would explain the need to notch the mailing tube ( 2.463" dia for 7 tubes ).

https://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/body_tubes.html

The fins appear to have been cut from a 3" wide balsa sheet, thickness unknown ( 1/8" - 1/4" likely ).

As for the color scheme . . . ( pure "guesswork", on my part )

Fin in Harry's hand - Black
Other visible fin - White
Third fin - Unknown
Engine Mount Tubes - Silver
Body Tube - Red
Nose Cone - Silver

Attached Thumbnails

   

most UPS Stores have an assortment of tubes in 1/2" increments from 1.5 to 3 (and sometimes 4" and 5"), though some stores are phasing them out since UPS drivers got UPS to consider tubes as irregular packaging and therefore added a $10+ handling surcharge when shipping.

__________________
Roy
nar12605

Could be... but Harry's article in Model Rocketry said that the mailing tube was "big enough that 7 engines could be clustered in it." Operative word here being, "in." Plus I can't see strap-ons in drawings and other murky photos.

It looks like the motors stuck out of the rocket enough such that they touch the ground when the old Honest Ivan was stood up on its fins. You can kinda sorta see that in the group photo after the first flight of the Honest Ivan.

I always thought that structure at the aft end of the rocket that you are pointing out was some over-engineered launch lug standoff thingee to get the 3/16" rod past the nose cone.





Seems about right.... I'd just paint the third fin white and consider gold for the nose cone. Gold because the Soviet flag was red and gold.

__________________
-Wolfram v. Kiparski
NAR 28643 - TRA 15520
MTMA Section #606 President

Gold sounds good for the Nose Cone, probably the Motor Tubes, too.

I wasn't thinking of "Strap-On's", per se, for the Motor Tubes. I envision something similar to the SEMROC HYDRA-VII arrangement, where the Motor Tubes protrude beyond the outer diameter of the tube above them.

I wonder whatever happened to the Honest Ivan . . . I wonder if Bill Stine might know ?

Dave F.

See this Post #16 in this thread (copied above) and a follow-on Post #17. Del Hitch received it from Harry when Harry left Colorado. My Post #17 states that Del Hitch has also passed away in just recent times, but had not been in rocketry apparently for some time.

No telling where Honest Ivan eventually wound up.

Earl

__________________
Earl L. Cagle, Jr.
NAR# 29523
TRA# 962
SAM# 73
Owner/Producer
Point 39 Productions

Rocket-Brained Since 1970

His wife's name is Jean Gadaleta Hitch, age 73 . . . I found a home address online.

Dave F.