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  #11  
Old 12-28-2022, 10:04 AM
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Ez2cDave Ez2cDave is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Austin
However, I will tell you this. If you really enjoy competition flying, then you better think of a way to get some new blood involved. For if you don't, competition flying will go away as that small group of folks continues to decrease until it is no more.

Bob


Bob,

That was very well said . . .

NAR Competition is dying and it seems that almost everyone is content to let it do so.

People seem to forget that the NAR was founded on Competition and that NARAM was all about competition.

If competition is to be saved, a plan must be devised, soon, to "re-involve" kids of all ages. The problem is how to do that, in today's world.

People get on this forum and others, not to come up with ideas on how to rejuvenate NAR Competition but, rather, to engage in ad hominem attacks against those who want to save it.

They choose to "nit-pick" or make it all about how often someone competes, how recently they have competed, and their performance when they have. This has nothing to do with the problem !

Why do they do it ? Are those personal attacks, and snarky remarks, somehow "stroking their ego" ? It certainly seems that way to me.

I say all that to say this . . . NAR Competition is dying and, if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem !

"Rome is burning . . . Are you Nero, or a fireman ?"

Dave F.

Last edited by Ez2cDave : 12-28-2022 at 10:23 AM.
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  #12  
Old 12-28-2022, 10:59 AM
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Ez2cDave Ez2cDave is offline
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What is SO DIFFERENT in these photos from Belarus ?

Look at these kids and ask yourselves "what is the difference" ?

What are they doing that is SO RIGHT, while the USA is "dying on the vine" ?

Dave F.
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  #13  
Old 12-28-2022, 12:59 PM
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astronwolf astronwolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Austin
...I will tell you this. If you really enjoy competition flying, then you better think of a way to get some new blood involved. For if you don't, competition flying will go away as that small group of folks continues to decrease until it is no more.

Why must I "better" think of a way? The demise of contest flying doesn't concern me. Not at all. All things run their course and fade away when they have reached their limit.

There was a time when I did take a more evangelistic approach to "getting new blood involved" like 25 years ago. The demise of contest rocketry was a thing even way back then. The demise is nothing new. Much has been tried over the past 25-years, and recently the entire rule book for running competition was completely changed. But the hoped for promise that the recent sweeping changes in the rules would revitalize contest flying didn't pan out. So much for rule changes...

There is an underlying assumption that gets lost in most any discussion about "saving" competition rocketry. There really is a Big Secret to all this, and I'll tell you what it is. Without this, the very best scheme ever created is not going to revitalize competition. I'll describe to you the very essence of contest flying broken down into a few detailed steps.
1. Build and fly a model rocket for streamer or parachute duration. Or build and fly a rocket glider or an egglofter. Makes no difference. It doesn't even have to be a "contest rocket." It can be anything.
2. Fly it. It doesn't have to be at "a meet." Just fly it.
3. Observe its performance (duration, altitude).
4. Ask yourself, was this fun?
5. Ask yourself, does improving its flight performance and trying again sound like fun?

If #4 and #5 are true then contest flying is most likely for you. Else, find some other aspect of the hobby that you enjoy more. It's that simple. The underlying assumption is that people actually enjoy flying rockets in a contest mode - either solo or in a group. All the rule changes you can think of won't change that.

If one can find a way to popularize something like #1 through #5 then you'll have something. IMHO Rule changes or new National-level initiatives won't make this happen. Only people flying rockets at the local level.
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  #14  
Old 12-28-2022, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astronwolf
The demise of contest flying doesn't concern me. Not at all.


Wolf,

Thank you for confirming what I have long said about your motivations and those of people like you. You have no personal interest or concern. You only goal is to be a "negative voice", make snarky comments, and engage in ad hominem attacks, against those who do care.

Exactly what are you trying to accomplish, Wolf, seriously ?

Dave F.
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  #15  
Old 12-28-2022, 01:55 PM
Scott_650 Scott_650 is offline
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After looking at the process for submitting an RCP on the NAR site I’m going to submit a proposal for a COTS competition class for next year’s rule change cycle. If anyone has any suggestions please feel free to post them here or send me a message. Thanks!
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  #16  
Old 12-28-2022, 02:02 PM
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I really think the NAR needs to establish a commission to look into to some different events for competition.

Most people almost intrinsically like 'competition' of one type or another in life. The fact that competition rocketry is 'dying' as it currently exists would maybe indicate that the majority of NAR members just don't care for many of the current competitive events, for whatever reason.

Possibly, a new slate of events that might appeal to a broader (and younger) selection of NAR members might revive interest. That does not mean that the ENTIRE current slate of competition events needs to be wiped cleaned, but the introduction of a couple new events might help.

Look at the (seemingly) very popular American Rocketry Challenge would indicate that many people, and young ones at that, are interested in competition. I think some of the prizes there are scholarships, so a different motivation on some level, but still, a great deal of interest in an event that is ALL about 'competition'.

So, I don't think really it is loss of interest in competition. Just a loss of interest in many of the current NAR competition events.

Earl
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  #17  
Old 12-28-2022, 02:49 PM
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Ez2cDave Ez2cDave is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott_650
After looking at the process for submitting an RCP on the NAR site I’m going to submit a proposal for a COTS competition class for next year’s rule change cycle. If anyone has any suggestions please feel free to post them here or send me a message. Thanks!


You have my vote, sir !

Dave F.
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  #18  
Old 12-28-2022, 02:59 PM
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Ez2cDave Ez2cDave is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl
I really think the NAR needs to establish a commission to look into to some different events for competition.

Most people almost intrinsically like 'competition' of one type or another in life. The fact that competition rocketry is 'dying' as it currently exists would maybe indicate that the majority of NAR members just don't care for many of the current competitive events, for whatever reason.

Possibly, a new slate of events that might appeal to a broader (and younger) selection of NAR members might revive interest. That does not mean that the ENTIRE current slate of competition events needs to be wiped cleaned, but the introduction of a couple new events might help.

Look at the (seemingly) very popular American Rocketry Challenge would indicate that many people, and young ones at that, are interested in competition. I think some of the prizes there are scholarships, so a different motivation on some level, but still, a great deal of interest in an event that is ALL about 'competition'.

So, I don't think really it is loss of interest in competition. Just a loss of interest in many of the current NAR competition events.

Earl


Earl,

Your post gave me an idea . . . Something similar to "Junior TARC" ( using small BP motors only ) . . . Start them off at age 8-9.

There could be "performance target" events, as well as "max performance" events.

By starting them early, there would be enough time to teach skills and, possibly "steer" them towards TARC, later.

The issue is how to reach them, gain their interest, and hold their attention.

Perhaps create a line of CHEAP, simple kits, aimed at whatever events are created ?

It might be possible to contact Estes directly and work out the details on a line of cheap "competition packs", consisting of cheap kits, combined with deeply-discounted motors ( only for the "new competition"), most likely 13mm. Perhaps, 3 - 6 motors would be bundled with each kit.

Dave F.

Last edited by Ez2cDave : 12-28-2022 at 09:32 PM.
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  #19  
Old 12-28-2022, 03:07 PM
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Thousands of kids have been involved in TARC at this point. It seems like it would make sense to have an event targeted at those kids now that they are adults that is similar to TARC, for teams or individuals. The event would be different every year like TARC but would still be egglofting, maybe with additional criteria. Hopefully there would be a good way to reach out to former TARC participants. It might help if it could be run after TARC at the TARC field.
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  #20  
Old 12-28-2022, 03:15 PM
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Ez2cDave Ez2cDave is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5x7
Thousands of kids have been involved in TARC at this point. It seems like it would make sense to have an event targeted at those kids now that they are adults that is similar to TARC, for teams or individuals. The event would be different every year like TARC but would still be egglofting, maybe with additional criteria. Hopefully there would be a good way to reach out to former TARC participants. It might help if it could be run after TARC at the TARC field.


My idea is to place the emphasis on kids, 8-9 years of age.

Let's face it, TARC is expensive to fly . . .

BUT, if the impulse levels were scaled down to 13mm motor levels, "Mini-TARC" could still be a theme . . . ( Set Duration, Precision Landing Area Target, events that require streamers, events that require chutes, possibly some small glider events, etc. ).

There could be both individual and team events, also.

For Altitude events, "Nose-Blow" recovery could be used, with timing from ignition to landing. Alternatively, a Ping-Pong ball, serving as a Nose Cone, could be jettisoned and timed.

This would avoid the expenses of altimeters and / or the hassle of setting up optical tracking.

Dave F.

Last edited by Ez2cDave : 12-28-2022 at 09:18 PM.
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