Ye Olde Rocket Forum

Go Back   Ye Olde Rocket Forum > The Doctor is In! > Ask the Doctor
User Name
Password
Auctions Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts Search Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-02-2007, 09:47 PM
joe11 joe11 is offline
Junior Rocketeer
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1
Default fuel types

I am doing a science project and I was wondering if you know where I could get the types of propellants in estes rocket engines. I know that they would typically keep that secret but was just wondering whether anybody knew what the fuels are made of. thanks joe
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-02-2007, 10:24 PM
pantherjon's Avatar
pantherjon pantherjon is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Hinesville, Georgia
Posts: 1,071
Default

Simple: Black powder

Basically the same thing as gunpowder
__________________
Jon
SAM #0396
BAR 02/07
NAR 86940
KF4GUL
Aim high, fly straight!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-03-2007, 12:08 AM
Royatl's Avatar
Royatl Royatl is offline
SPEV/Orion wrangler
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 2,294
Default

Black powder is a classic mixture of 15% charcoal, 10% sulfur, and 75% saltpeter (potassium nitrate). Not that secret, though they may occasionally change the percentages very slightly for various reasons, or add burn-rate modifiers for the delay charge.

Not a good idea to try to make it yourself.
__________________
Roy
nar12605
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-03-2007, 03:35 PM
Rocket Doctor Rocket Doctor is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,400
Default

Do not attempt to make your own black powder !!!!!
Leave motor making to the experts.

Model rocketry was started in the first place to get away from the "basement bombers", where young budding "scientists would mix all types of chemicals together and suffer serious personal injury.

I'm sure that you can come up with a better and safer science project.

I would strongly suggest that you visit the Estes web site www.estesrockets.com, and, click on the educational link.

Or better yet, call the Estes director of Education Ann Grimm at 1-800-525-7561 hit "0" ask the operator for the Director of Education

We want you to have a safe model rocket experience.......
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-03-2007, 04:04 PM
Nuke Rocketeer's Avatar
Nuke Rocketeer Nuke Rocketeer is offline
Knuckle Draggin' Engineer
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Minooka IL
Posts: 349
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Royatl
Black powder is a classic mixture of 15% charcoal, 10% sulfur, and 75% saltpeter (potassium nitrate). Not that secret, though they may occasionally change the percentages very slightly for various reasons, or add burn-rate modifiers for the delay charge.

Not a good idea to try to make it yourself.


I think you might have the proportions wrong for charcoal and saltpeter...........
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-03-2007, 07:56 PM
Bazookadale's Avatar
Bazookadale Bazookadale is offline
I wish I was a spaceman!
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elizabethtown,PA
Posts: 431
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuke Rocketeer
I think you might have the proportions wrong for charcoal and saltpeter...........


As Royatl stated the proportions may vary but 75 - 15 - 10 is the classic mix
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunpowder
__________________
Did the chicken really cross the road, or did the
road move beneath the chicken? Albert Einstein

You Can't break the laws of physics but they can break you. Christine McKinley


Dale Greene

Mentor, Penn Manor Rocket Club

VISIT SPAAR
2010 Calder Cup
The Old West
2009 Calder Cup

" Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act. " George Orwell
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-04-2007, 01:34 AM
Royatl's Avatar
Royatl Royatl is offline
SPEV/Orion wrangler
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 2,294
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuke Rocketeer
I think you might have the proportions wrong for charcoal and saltpeter...........


Nope. That's quoted from an Estes patent.
__________________
Roy
nar12605
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-04-2007, 12:22 PM
ghrocketman's Avatar
ghrocketman ghrocketman is offline
President, MAYHEM AGITATORS, Inc.
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9,415
Default

Seems to me that the Amateur/Experimental "Basement Bomber" rocketeers have always gotten a bum rap, not that one should ever try to make BP engines in a basement.
I do recall all the hub-bub when certain BP manufacturers tried to quash RMS composite engines on supposed "safety" grounds though.
__________________
When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!!
No Harm=NO Foul advocate

If you are NOT FLYING LOW in the left lane, you need to GET THE #$&@ OUT of it !

Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL
, if you have to ask, you probably aren't
!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-04-2007, 07:10 PM
Solomoriah's Avatar
Solomoriah Solomoriah is offline
Incorrigible Kit Basher
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,821
Default

I've been mulling over a Dangerous Idea for the last few months. Now, let me preface this by saying that I have no intention of carrying out the following; I'm not adequately experienced in the necessary skills nor trained in the appropriate knowledge. But...

Tim Van Milligan explains very clearly why making your own propellant is not sensible. He points out the amount of research needed, and the cost of equipment to do that research, and then the cost of equipment to actually make the engines after you have figured them out. And, such experimentation is naturally dangerous.

So I'll take that as a given. But let's suppose that someone with the right knowledge were to spend some time and money working out a reasonably safe, reliable and predictable binary propellant. Such a propellant might consist of fuel in a paste form, and oxidizer as a powder. The developer would have to work out the optimum proportions of fuel to oxidizer, and design simple-to-use equipment for safely mixing the propellant and loading it into engine casings.

Naturally, a standardized engine casing (or a variety of casings of differing sizes) would be needed. The propellant should be able to burn reasonably well from the end, and thus not require a bored-out core. A delay charge could be made using a different fuel paste and an appropriate proportion of oxidizer, and likewise an ejection charge could be made the same way (though a powdered fuel/powdered oxidizer combination might be effective here also).

As the fuel(s) aren't explosive (and can't be mistaken for an explosive) when not mixed with oxidizer, it should be entirely legal to ship them anywhere without any hazardous material regulations applying. I'm not sure what sort of rules apply to shipping oxidizers (though I assume someone will tell me shortly).

Obviously, we are outside the bounds of "model rocketry" at this point, but I wonder if, given an appropriate safety code and a good, well-tested design, this sort of propellant might make "amateur rocketry" nearly as safe as "model rocketry" is now.
__________________
SAM #0076 Licensed to Build
My site: http://rocketry.gonnerman.org
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-05-2007, 08:24 AM
Nuke Rocketeer's Avatar
Nuke Rocketeer Nuke Rocketeer is offline
Knuckle Draggin' Engineer
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Minooka IL
Posts: 349
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Royatl
Nope. That's quoted from an Estes patent.


I really oughta look before I leap. You are right. I was just going off a faulty memory that told me charcoal was the major ingredient. Oh well, I can blame it on that precursor to Alzheimers, known as Sometimers.

Joe W
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:51 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ye Olde Rocket Shoppe 1998-2019