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  #11  
Old 08-13-2011, 11:39 PM
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Mark II Mark II is offline
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Yes, I have used it in a number of rockets, particularly those that I made out of card stock. This is the recovery device that is provided in the Estes Wizard kit.

I have 4 or 5 rolls in different bright and dark colors. Other than the fact that it is vulnerable to heat from the ejection charge, the material is more durable than crepe paper. It doesn't unfurl as easily though (talcing it is a real good idea) and doesn't provide as much drag as crepe paper. It is handy to have on hand in your range box and it is the easiest streamer material to use: just tear, break or cut a length off of the roll and tie it onto (around) the shock cord while leaving plenty of length in both ends to flap in the breeze after deployment. That is how it is attached in the Wizard.
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  #12  
Old 08-14-2011, 12:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark II
Yes, I have used it in a number of rockets, particularly those that I made out of card stock. This is the recovery device that is provided in the Estes Wizard kit.
Are you sure it's not just a more cheaply-made plastic flagging tape (the kind used to mark various things at construction sites) that Estes is including in their Wizard kits? (Some of the cheaper plastic flagging tape is easy to tear.) Flagging tape has a molded-in, small-scale "lattice texture," while the trail marker tape is completely smooth and is thinner than most flagging tape. Also, trail marker tape is offered as a photo-degradable, non-toxic item for use by hunters in wilderness areas, while flagging tape isn't made to be photo-degradable because it is intended for relatively long-term outdoor use (and indoor use) in human-inhabited areas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark II
I have 4 or 5 rolls in different bright and dark colors. Other than the fact that it is vulnerable to heat from the ejection charge, the material is more durable than crepe paper. It doesn't unfurl as easily though (talcing it is a real good idea) and doesn't provide as much drag as crepe paper. It is handy to have on hand in your range box and it is the easiest streamer material to use: just tear, break or cut a length off of the roll and tie it onto (around) the shock cord while leaving plenty of length in both ends to flap in the breeze after deployment. That is how it is attached in the Wizard.
The thinner "grade" of plastic flagging tape is easy to tie directly to shock cords. The kit instructions of the smaller, BT-5 size Estes rockets (the Gnome, the UP Aerospace SpaceLoft, etc.) say to tape the streamers to the shock cords using masking tape instead of instructing the builders to tie the streamers to these rockets' shock cords. Maybe Estes was concerned that knots on the streamers might block the interiors of the narrower BT-5 body tubes?
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Last edited by blackshire : 08-14-2011 at 12:28 AM. Reason: This ol' hoss done forgot somethin'.
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  #13  
Old 08-16-2011, 12:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshire
Are you sure it's not just a more cheaply-made plastic flagging tape (the kind used to mark various things at construction sites) that Estes is including in their Wizard kits? (Some of the cheaper plastic flagging tape is easy to tear.) Flagging tape has a molded-in, small-scale "lattice texture," while the trail marker tape is completely smooth and is thinner than most flagging tape. Also, trail marker tape is offered as a photo-degradable, non-toxic item for use by hunters in wilderness areas, while flagging tape isn't made to be photo-degradable because it is intended for relatively long-term outdoor use (and indoor use) in human-inhabited areas.
The streamer material in my Wizard is identical to the the orange trail marking tape that I have. It has a subtle fabric-like or "woven" texture. The three rolls (red, orange, deep blue) that I bought at an sportsman's shop have that texture while the bright yellow roll that I bought at a hardware store is completely smooth and shiny. The smooth, slick yellow tape is thinner but also less flexible across its width (and hence, less easily knottable) than the others. I had no trouble tying the Wizard's tape streamer onto the shock cord with a pair of overhand knots. I don't know if my trail-marking tape is photo-degradable; I didn't notice anything about that on the box that I picked the rolls out of when I bought them about four or five years ago. The textured tape that I bought from a local outfitter was labeled as trail-marking tape while the smooth tape that I bought at the hardware store was labeled as flagging tape. The smooth tape is the same material as the wider "Caution" tape and was on the same shelf. I see both styles of tape out in the woods along foot trails and snowmobile trails. It never occurred to me that they might have been intended for different uses.

To attach the plastic tape streamer to the shock cord, first I tied it around the cord like a necktie using an overhand knot. Then I tied an overhand knot in the shock cord around the first knot. Then I repeated the sequence one more time. I pulled everything nice and tight so that there is just a quite small knot at the connection.
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Last edited by Mark II : 08-16-2011 at 12:32 AM.
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  #14  
Old 08-16-2011, 12:51 AM
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Thank you for describing those! I had never seen or heard of the photo-degradable trail marker tape until I saw the roll in my friend's horse barn recently. Also, I have a few individually-packaged rolls of the non-photo-degradable fluoresecent red and fluorescent orange ("Day-Glo") plastic flagging tape (the rocket streamer type, with the "woven texture") whose packaging lists marking hunting trails and trees in forests as uses for it.
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  #15  
Old 08-16-2011, 06:10 AM
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We have a couple of clones using crepe paper streamers. Mostly because she wanted the streamer to match the color of the rocket (at least close as we could).
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  #16  
Old 08-16-2011, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mycrofte
We have a couple of clones using crepe paper streamers. Mostly because she wanted the streamer to match the color of the rocket (at least close as we could).
_____
Crepe paper is very effective streamer material. The one big downside of it is that it is rather fragile. But hey, it's cheap and easily replaced. Has anyone ever gotten more than three or four flights out of a given crepe paper streamer?
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  #17  
Old 08-17-2011, 01:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark II
Crepe paper is very effective streamer material. The one big downside of it is that it is rather fragile. But hey, it's cheap and easily replaced. Has anyone ever gotten more than three or four flights out of a given crepe paper streamer?
You've just inspired an idea (I'll get to it below), but to answer your question, I was pleasantly surprised when a crepe paper streamer lasted for three flights. Here's the idea that you inspired:

If crepe paper streamers could be quickly changed out in the field, I wouldn't mind using them, as they do have very good drag characteristics, are cheap, don't get stiff in cold weather, and don't melt together if a little ejection charge gas leaks around the wadding (these are the reasons why G. Harry Stine favored them, as he related in his "Handbook of Model Rocketry"). Now:

Imagine a device that is rather like a potato chip bag clip, only smaller. It could be permanently attached to the rocket's shock cord (or to the nose cone, via a short line). One end of the crepe paper streamer would be held between the jaws of the clip, which could either be spring-loaded or held shut by a clasp (or even by fine-pitch screws). When the crepe paper streamer became too torn or tattered, the clip's jaws would be opened, the old streamer would be removed, and a fresh length of crepe paper would be clamped between the clip's jaws. A model rocketeer could just keep a roll of crepe paper in his or her range box and cut off (or tear off, in a pinch) a new length of streamer material when it is needed.
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Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
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Last edited by blackshire : 08-17-2011 at 01:29 AM. Reason: This ol' hoss done forgot somethin'.
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  #18  
Old 08-17-2011, 05:11 PM
Neal Miller Neal Miller is offline
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Hey J, it's been a long time , I am still building and flying rockets here in South Florida, we have 2 clubs and soon will have 3. and now my take on paper streamers: find a craft store that has the paper streamer on a larger roll, these are made of better paper than the small rolls from Wal Mart or the Dollar store. I like to use Black Streamers as they are easy to spot.
Also instead of stuffing the body tube with wadding, I jacket the streamer with the wadding.
As for clipping the wadding to the shock cord, how about useing one of those small clips that are used to clip a security badge to the shrit pocket? I tryed this and it will work in BT-20
and larger tubes, I also use these clips to support rockets on the launch rod.
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  #19  
Old 08-17-2011, 09:27 PM
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Default The matter of the LTV Scout...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neal Miller
Hey J, it's been a long time , I am still building and flying rockets here in South Florida, we have 2 clubs and soon will have 3. and now my take on paper streamers: find a craft store that has the paper streamer on a larger roll, these are made of better paper than the small rolls from Wal Mart or the Dollar store. I like to use Black Streamers as they are easy to spot.
Also instead of stuffing the body tube with wadding, I jacket the streamer with the wadding.
As for clipping the wadding to the shock cord, how about useing one of those small clips that are used to clip a security badge to the shrit pocket? I tryed this and it will work in BT-20
and larger tubes, I also use these clips to support rockets on the launch rod.
Hello Neal,

Before I moved to Fairbanks, Alaska in 1997, you sold me an Estes LTV Scout kit (for $40, if I recall correctly), with the provision that if I ever decided to sell it I would sell it back to you. I am ashamed to say that I failed to keep my word, and I wish to make amends if possible. I sold it and many other belongings on eBay in the late 1990s or early 2000s to raise money to keep from losing my house, but that does not excuse what I did. I want to find a replacement LTV Scout kit for you or, if I cannot find one, reimburse you for the $40 and then some.



-- Jason
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Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
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  #20  
Old 08-17-2011, 11:54 PM
Neal Miller Neal Miller is offline
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Default The Case of the LTV Scout

Jason, thank's for the offer but you sold me some good kit's too. so let's call it a wash.
I still have a built model of the Scout, looks cool but fly's for stunkin. I know how it is to have to sell thing's you wish you had back, I sold my Enerjet Athena Kit so I could have gas money to go on vaction. Thank You, for the offer Lets keep in touch. Neal

Having the ability to build rockets in your sleep: COOL
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